Amen. Reading some of these posts reminds me why schools don’t allow dodgeball anymore.

"If the TA is accepted, the MEC then votes on whether or not to send it out for Membership Ratification (MR), in accordance with published MEC policy."

Someone help me make sure I understand this correctly. The MEC itself decides on whether or not to allow the general members to vote on approval of a TA? Sounds like they wouldn't agree to a TA unless they wanted it to pass, so why would they vote to allow it to out for a general vote at all?

Also, if the TA is passed, and furloughs are mitigated, can you still volunteer for furlough?

I think this is kind of odd… Because at least the thing I am espousing is not rabid self-preservation, which is a fairly juvenile tendency, but to rather make a choice out of solidarity that if some of your union brothers are suffering a lot of pain, that all of us at least suffer a little.

The allusions to socialism I guess or not totally unwarranted… But the very idea of a union borrows a lot of its values from a group of people looking out for each other‘s needs and being able to both spread the successes and failures more evenly. If you can’t get on board for these basic tenants… How do you call yourself a strong union member?

just to be very clear, I do not think you’re wrong for your stance, but it very obviously contradicts with the idea of the union. Could you perhaps acknowledge that maybe you land at a more individualistic end of the spectrum?

for whatever it’s worth, I land slightly right of center nationally… I don’t particularly feel that my money is spread well on a national level. But on a localized union level, I think the leadership is efficient, well-intentioned and can effectively help others

Didn't affect me but I did voice my disapproval... I was told that with retirements and massive hiring it was going to be nothing but sunshine and blue skies ahead and the guys affected by LOA 25 should be ok. Should.

And here we are.

We have a contract in place that dictates how this should go, including furlough pay and voluntary reduced lines, it was negotiated over many years... not two weeks. The company has NEVER come to us in good times to renegotiate up. Ever.

The problem with “winging it” is when does it become too much?

Literally every 121 pilot today knows that getting furloughed for several years is the reality for anyone who gets hired at a major. It's been like this well over 5 decades now. It sucks, but there's no excuse for:

1. not being aware of the cyclical nature of this job
2. not prepared for 5-10 years on the street.

This is why we don't go to places like ERAU/UND and get ridiculous $300k degrees. We get other education in engineering/software/etc to diversify our skillset and we do side-hustles to diversify the income stream.

Unless you're getting picked up a legacy at age 23, by the time you get to that legacy, you should have at least one side-hustle up and running to pay your bills in the "oh ****" situations like we're in now that most of us didn't see coming.

Something about an unforeseen 65% reduction bookings comes to mind.

Maybe it’s time we re-examine the whole seniority system as a whole. Maybe it’s time to dismantle the system of oppression the seniority based system of capitalistic opportunism that is inherently unfair and unjust. True socialism requires adherence to shared rewards and shared pain. Workers of the world arise and demand a just system!
(For those that can’t already tell this is in jest....... this is in jest)
Have a great day 😂

I agree with you 100% and think your fears are well founded. I was not on property and privy to the union emails the last go around.

maybe I’m overly optimistic, but I do not think this current MEC would send us a TA that was even remotely close to the trash that was forced to the United pilot group in the mid 2000s

The company has already won, it will be ALPA/fellow pilots to blame no matter how this shakes out. That’s why we have a contract in the first place, to prevent that from happening.