GSTB............. except when:
 

... this is going to be a paycut for me
... junior guys need to pay their dues like me
... somebody might get a sweeter deal than me
... I just might squeeze through and avoid furlough so the math comes out a little better for me
... and so on

- I get that this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea and there are legit reasons to vote either way, but at least make an apples to apples comparison (i.e. more flying improves the MPG on the TA from the worst case - conversely, terrible pax counts for an extended period mean rough outcomes for many even under the UPA).

Yeah, stirring the pot a bit. Apologies. Carry on

Don't forget I'm in no hurry for a contract everything is great, I don't need an annuity to help the a-plan loss that won't matter to me. Hey wait now we are all in this together. Carry on

ha. This is fun. Man I heard/saw a lot of more of GTSB up until just recently.

the weirdest one I saw:

Except when: I’m going to miss out on that sweet sweet furlough pay. Umm? GSTB?

there are going to be a lot more shifting eyeballs and mumbling through that motto if we keep the ceremony and the motto.

maybe we should just change the motto to “but I’ve got a kid starting college!”

I’m likely going to be a yes vote, but I do have to say that post-merger culture may have mislead you guys a bit. This GSTB thing never had anything to do with “saving the junior guy from furlough”. Is that how it was explained to you guys? If so, I want you to know that the majority of pre-merger pilots (~9000 of us) never interpreted that sound-bite in that way. And that includes the good unionist pilots. Yes it’s a unity statement; not a no-furlough war cry.
I’m sorry.

Thanks for articulating that.

I was thinking this was YGTBSM, lol. What is GSTB?

God Save The Ball...the most junior pilot at the company.

You’ve stated what it was not, how should it have been interpreted?

I’ve always interpreted it as a relatively selfish mantra, as in “God save the Ball, so I have better seniority, QOL, vacation, etc.....”

So, in essence, it’s BOTH a cry for unity AND no furloughs. It’s ok to be against furloughs because you’re selfish.....most pilots are. And I think MOST pilots are against furloughs for all the reasons I just stated, until it might affect them....and then it’s time to eat the young.

*In short, I don’t think it’s some altruistic war cry. It’s a way of saying “please God, keep as many people below me as possible”. And that’s something that we ALL usually want.

It’s been a few years and a few beers, but I think at the ceremony it was stated that “as long as the Ball is safe, that means everyone is safe,” or something very similar. Not sure how else to interpret it other than what you have.

Well said! I can appreciate that perspective. Best wishes to all. I look forward to life and flying with you all on the other side of this mess

So.....God Save the Ball!! And the rest of us.

vote yes.

BALL = Contract

NO Vote

Motch

Duh. Guess it’s pretty obvious now that you say it,

I think you and other like-minded senior guys should draft a resolution for a LOA that would trigger if the furloughs are canceled. This LOA would transfer the furlough fund money towards the a-plan guys you are referring to. I mean.....at least it’s something? Personally I would MUCH rather be paying my own insurance premiums, gainfully employed.....and I have no problem continuing the 1% as a show of gratitude to help those SENIOR guys out. You be the point man on that LOA and I’ll vote for it.

I think you missed my point. when this was brought up the junior guys talked it down because they didn't think it mattered to them. I know now we are all in this together! For over 30 years many of us have worked to make this a better place to work and much of that better part is in the hands of the new hires. None of this will change my life but when I keep hearing the all in this together now I just go back to those meetings hearing the junior folks fight against helping out some folks that have made it better for them. I also don't think anything you do now will stop the ch-11 proceedings in the near future. I also would rather have you gainfully employed. JMO but everyone that thinks they are being saved better start on plan b as this company has been headed to ch11 since SK got here, the time line has been accelerated.

So no A350s in ORD anytime soon?

lol, don't know about ord but i quit waiting for them Mudge!!

It’s an expression of sympathy for the most junior person; tongue in cheek. That’s mainly it. And of course, it also carries some generic unionist meaning about “Taking care of our own”. But never was it associated with furloughs until someone decided that’s what it meant. If the interpretation was about furloughs, nobody ever told the group at large.
If someone has more specific history, feel
free to share. Anyway, most of us want to help save furloughs and hopefully we can, somehow. But it’s not a specific duty or creed of the United pilot to do so, culturally speaking.

Bless your heart. Here’s a fantastic idea . How about starting and contributing to a gofundme for the bottom 1/3? We’ll gladly accept your donations.

We should have a sense of humor about typical pilot-isms. “God save the ball” on one end and “get out of my seat!” On the other! :-)

I could be wrong here. But isn't that what the furlough fund is for?

Wow, I’m confused, when was this A plan restoration idea ever brought up in any official capacity to discuss it let alone shoot it down? And who are the junior folks who wielded the power and numbers to shoot it down. I’d absolutely support some sort of bonus for those who’ve lost A plane. Never had the chance to voice an opinion on the topic.

And the more I read and hear I remain undecided. I had plans today so missed it live and hope to see the Q&A to help fill in more details. I truly see multiple logical arguments to pro and con. I’d like to hear constructive criticism of the deserting 3 votes too.

I am also struck with how often I heard my Union speaks for me and now we have a huge divide. Do that many people really think the union did not speak for them? Why would Todd and other ALPA MEC vote yes if they felt it was a bad deal? Why ignore the masses? I ask you because honestly you are opposed toward this TA and seemingly those who approved it. What’s rationale do you think they used to pass it and now push it? Hope I’m not perceived as attacking you. Your passionate and I want to know why you think the MEC would hurt so many senior and junior pilots. Are they incompetent, negligent to the right needs of the union or are 16 of 19 just wrong and not smart enough to see the companies strategy?

They did not have the chance to vote against the annuity that was brought up but rest assure they spoke against it and they I guess you have to go to the minutes of the meeting to see exactly who. As far as Insler I have no confidence in him or his group that are pushing all of this. All I see is an individual concerned with moving up the ALPA ladder. JMO As far as my union speaks for me, how about how many junior folks in the last 6 months have said or written that they will take a furlough they just want to have a good contract to come back to. Well that tune has changed. Don't get me wrong I sure as heck don't want furloughs as some that will head out the door I helped get here at UAL. This company has been flying with probably 5000 pilots for the last 6 months, do you really believe the stuff from Insler and SK that we are positioning to spring into action when this is all over? Sorry I don't see it happening that quickly, neither does SK. No worries I don't feel attacked at all, best of luck to you in your career.

“Bless my heart”? Why the sarcasm? I’m assuming that you don’t like my explanation.
My “go fund me” for the bottom 1/3 comes in two parts:
1. I voted to fund your medical expenses if you get furloughed, by paying into that fund every paycheck.
2. I’ll be voting “yes” on this TA, thereby giving up 18 hours of MPG every month, for two years, so that you can keep your job.
Is that enough “go fund me”, or would you like anything else to go with that?

SK no, I expect him to try and extract all he can. Insler and the MEC I did not except to hear as much negativity about them at this point. I appreciate your candor and perspective that the company and ALPA may both have an agenda more than be told I’m stealing from you if I vote yes.

It strikes me as odd that this all has to happen at the 11th hour. Fear and expediency are not generally healthy ingredients for effective decision making. I’m still digesting and waiting to see what other downsides are being found. Best wishes to you.