What next?
 

Just so I’m on board and thinking like the majority, what trigger are we praying for? More than 2007 furloughed? BK? Less than $2B cash on hand?

We're praying for 70% for 3 quarters or 80% for 1 quarter soon.

Give it up already. Are you still trying to change votes?

The poll here on APC is still open. So yeah maybe I can still persuade someone to vote no.

why aren’t you hoping for traffic to return and cancel the TA?

Well.......

In about 4-6 weeks, a bunch of spouses will be looking at the finances and asking their UA pilot

YOU DID WHAT???!!!

I Never really believed in the Hail Mary pass. Unfortunately that’s the only play we have left in our playbook...

Good luck! Eventually those windmills will fall down. Best of luck to you and the rest of us going forward.

yep and another group of spouses is crying right now out of sheer happiness because the stress has been released even if temporarily from their family.

Perfect division.

Mission complete.

SK

ok so if it’s not an option why start a thread? Is it just to have a place to wallow in self pity and distain? You talk a big game take the COLA this TA offers and go make more money elsewhere come back when MPG is restored.

We're praying for November 3rd to come and go. My guess is after the results are tallied, a vaccine will be announced, or scientists will determine that we've reached herd immunity. We keep hearing that the vaccines in trial status are about ready. Politicians will also be more motivated to pass stimulus funds to reinvigorate the economy.

Politicians around the world will announce that they too have reached herd immunity in their countries too or the announcement of a vaccine will reduce their restrictions too. We're seeing anti lockdown protests globally, so it's not just an American phenomenon.

To clarify, before any uninformed attacks are made:
The virus is real, it's infecting people and there's a mortality rate.

Second, I don't think other countries locked down to influence American elections. I personally think it was a move done in attempt to save lives, but slowing the spread lead overzealous politicians enact powers they wouldn't otherwise have been able to, and they don't know when to relinquish them. The idea of lockdown is not to eliminate the virus, but rather to make capacity in hospitals giving resources to those who need ventilators etc. It slows the pace at which herd immunity is reached. So there's some science going on, but there's also politics involved because scientists do not run the government.

If my wife viewed me as a meal ticket, she'd be my ex. And no better time to file than when your wages are low.

I filed for divorce on a year one pre-C2K salary. Smartest financial move I've made. Had I not done so, I'd still be broke just like my ex is.

There's no real need to hope or surmise; just refer to the manual that the MEC and Management have been referencing for further guidance on our future......

Animal Farm by George Orwell

It's a feel good story about egalitarianism and self governance. The question is, which chapter are they currently on?

Well honey, as the business generates 80% less revenue the day of reckoning was coming one way or another. I chose to take a temporary pay reduction with longterm permanent gains tied to it to help save thousands of coworker’s entire paycheck and provide a path to recovery should one arise soon. It still may not work out for them, but at least we tried to pull through together instead of acting like a bunch of enraged dogs all fighting to take the last few bites for ourselves.

And always remember, my friends, “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

Which animals are more equal in this scenario?

I guess we all differ in opinions on how to best kill a frog. One side says slowly boil it in water until it’s demise the other thinks running over it is best. Same result. Why were we even left having to face this decision for ourselves?

Kirby figured it out. Cut it in half.

I talked my wife already. She is fully on board with my vote.

Mine just said, “That’s great news!” Several of my friends now get to keep putting food on the table for 7 more months. I will have to work about 2 days a week which is my dream come true.

Interesting quote from Scott Kirby today in Bloomberg:

“Right now, we’re flying about 45% of our schedule—we’re a smaller airline—and this is probably the size we’ll be for the next 15 months,” he explained

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s?srnd=premium

are you honestly just realizing that a unionized DOH-based system is completely untethered from merit or the economy? Isn’t that why people hate “public unions” and “government waste”?

pick a lane bud

What are my lane choices? I usually follow the centerline (is that considered a lane?) but then that doesn't work so well when I'm driving, which is something I've been doing more of lately.

Mission completed. Division and union busted. Now when we furlough more than 2007 and the TA is gone, maybe we can scare them again.......no backbone amongst this pilot group. This place sucks.

I mean I didn’t think your analogy fit well at all. Half-baked at best, divisive at worst.

management’s job is to run the airline and attempt to make as much money as possible, in the purest capitalistic model. Ideally, they see the value (to their bottom line) of treating employees and customers well. The union’s job is to preserve the wages and QOL of its members, regardless of the value they offer to the company. Ideally they try to squeeze every dollar from the company they can, without actually restricting the company‘s ability to make that money.

So in this case, given that senior pilots are still given preference to junior pilots in every way possible (pay rates, MPG, equipment selection, trip selection, etc) isn’t the union acting in a more business friendly and capitalistic sense than normal, thus doing the opposite of what you were alluding to?

Ha, I did the same first year. I remember explaining it to one Captain in '97. My alimony and child support was 24K/year based on my old USAF pay and United was paying us I think $25/hour. He said you can't financially do that. Ah, but financially I did.

No one is forcing you to stay at United. You are more than welcome to leave and find a place that you feel does not suck. But, seeing as you are too fragile to go hack it in the real world without the pay protection afforded by a union enforced scheme, it's actually your lack of backbone that puts the pilot group in these situations in the first place.

take the EO and get gone by all means retire and do something that makes you happy.

this pilot group showed a huge amount of testicular fortitude this week. What you see as weakness I see as strength I’m extremely proud of this pilot group.

Positive thinking
 

Florida opened its doors; let’s hope others follow!

Plus the election is around the corner.... hopefully we will see a turnaround regardless of the outcome!

lack of backbone? I was a solid no and trying to save a contract. Let me know in 10 years how this works out for you. Thankfully, I am gone in 7. 31 years of this place is enough. Watch and learn grasshopper how this turns out.

But you're still not willing to leave the 'comfort' of your union either way.

I honestly could not care less how this turns out in 10 years.

31 years, that's a helluva sentence, what'd they get you for?

You guys should really direct this anger where it belongs; the US media propoganda machine.

For months, the news cycle has been DEATH, FEAR, and COVID.... non-stop. They have single handedly destroyed our industry and are directly responsible for our conundrum.

1. Airline travel is safe. No linked COVID cases to a flight, ever.
2. Virus has little effect on the population under age 70.
3. Airplanes have never been cleaner.

Yet, you won't hear this in the news. I cannot understand for the life of me, why all of us aren't super ****ed at the mis-information in the MSM? And our unions? Why the hell are they not devoting ALPA PAC money to getting this information out and getting people flying?

What a shortsighted view of the big picture. Will you still be feeling this euphoric come June 1st when the furloughs commence?

yes I will. Strength is voting a pay cut for yourself to save your brothers and sisters from furlough. Weakness is simply saying see ya I’ll take me full pay check....that would have been a very easy vote to make.

You’re such a paragon of virtue...I can’t remember....you were in the upper 1/3 right?

legs removed ... lightly battered in cornmeal ... then sautéed in butter and garlic ... chilled white wine ... don’t get no better on da red bank creek

upper part of the bottom 1/3 why does it matter?

You voted yes to save your job at the expense of pilots senior to you.. Money out of my pocket into yours. Man up and call it as it is.

So angry.....go back off headset.

^THIS^

It really is as simple as it appears.