Pvsl2
 

Snapshot out.
Barely over 200 takers, so far. Over 6000 eligible. Underwhelming.

There will be more. I am planning on taking it but haven't signed up yet. I was doubtful my seniority would hold it but now I'm cautiously optimistic. Out of 214 total so far, 49 or so are junior to me. The ages appear to be largely upper 50's/lower 60's which is where I fall.

Jealous of those who can take this path. If finances are sorted, age and longevity are good, this is a pretty fantastic option.

How can you claim underwhelming on the first snapshot? Stop trying to stir something up.

I’m sure you can volunteer to not move up any seniority numbers and just ask that everyone else move up ahead of you since its so “underwhelming”.

For the outsiders, what is Pvsl2 and what are the terms?

Company initially offered an early out option several months back (PVSL) and it was for peeps above age 62, which rather limited the number of candidates eligible. I think just under 500 took that, although 600'ish were available. Jump to this new TA/LOA and the early out (PVSL-2) was expanded to those age 50 and above with more than 10 years of service. Pays two years of pay (vice the three that was offered on version 1). I believe most of the benefits remain intact, some travel benefits, paid move, etc. 655 early outs are funded/possible with this, so the fact the first snapshot came out with only 214 on the list surprised many. Guys as low as seniority #9100 and age 50 showed up on the first snapshot, and that surprised many that someone as junior as 9100 would get it, as the awards are seniority based to the senior 655 that put in for it. All fleets except the 787 leave in November....the 787 awards will be delayed five months because that fleet is flying their arses off and the training pipeline for replacements will take several months. Hope that helps.....

Yeah, first snap shot showing a third of eligible slots signed up for out of 655 available with a week to go to apply. I'm furious at the failure of this.

I count 28 62 year old's. How many were eligible for round 1 and have lost 696 hours of pay & PRAP

bet they are ****ed for not snagging the last deal (3yr)

I am 62 but missed PVSL-1 age criteria by 10 days. I’m sure others recently turned 62 as well.

If we retire roughly 400+/year.....and the calendar has moved a few months forward.....one would expect that several dozen have moved into the age 62 window that weren't previously in it. I know of one pilot who applied for it, but was on LTD at the time, and denied the program. She is since off LTD and her name is now on this list.

275 now. Trending right direction with a lonnnnng way to go.

Not trying to stir things up:rolleyes: but...


The company was willing to pay for 655x24=15720 months of 58 hours of pay and 655x60=39300 months of medical.


They only have to pay 363x24=8712 months of pay and 363x60=21780 months of medical.

https://imgflip.com/i/4hv9kh

I am absolutely blown away at how small the take number was on this.....I figured people were going to be denied.

Surprised? Really? Of all people that’s a bold statement coming from you. IIRC you we’re one of those trumpeting how great EO2 was and that alone was reason enough to vote this LoA in. Well, don’t be so shocked when many more of your prophesies don’t come true wrt this LOA. I do admire your honesty though. As for me, not surprised at all that many EOs were left on the table.

24 months not good enough sorry
36 months of 50 hours per month and 5 years of insurance coverage would have been the minimum that they should have offer
not surprised at all with the 363 takers only

A better package would most likely have cost the company more than a big furlough, and we’re just an expense line on a spreadsheet to them. They are looking at this as a short term deal to put off making long term decisions for 6 months hoping for better data. If things don’t show a big improvement and a positive trend by spring, they announce a massive furlough, terminate the LOA, and we will be in the same place by fall as we would have been without this deal. Given the impact of long lasting global lockdowns and the recurring spikes in the virus on business travel, my bet is that the furlough of the allowed 2,000 Pilots is inevitable regardless of a vaccine or treatment. The furlough of 3,900+ before 2021 is over is still a big threat.

I’ll bet a lot of guys didn’t take it out of spite for TA in general. Now these people will stay here and complain about low LPAs when they could have had more money to stay home lol.

I thought that more of those with 2 years left would look at the early out as a good deal. If they thought that the LOA could last a while, retiring at low pay for 2 years beats the heck out of flying for 2 years with a low line value. I guess that more people thought that this deal wouldn’t last 2 years, that they would be able to get open time and make more money than the early out, or they just didn’t want to retire yet.

One of the most unintelligent posts I’ve seen in years.

its 363 pilots that we would not have had take an EO without the TA. So I call it a win!

Which the pilot group paid for, winning!

see that argument doesn’t make any sense to me.

if 4000 pilots had been furloughed without this TA, then wouldn’t they be paying for you to keep 70 hours MPG? Wouldn’t they be paying for those 363 to still be employed? Wouldn’t they be paying to keep the company afloat?

The pilot group is always paying somehow it’s just a matter of who is paying and how much.

You also realize these EO2s don’t create any movement wrt the seniority list or at least not for a couple years until they actually are retired. This is another one of those little gems in the LOA to keep the lower 1/3 in the lower 1/3. They take the EO, we pay for it and we don’t even move up in seniority. I call it a loss.

yeah but now a bottom 1/3 may not get furloughed because those pilots are now permanently retired.

However, your point is valid and it is a HUGE negative and it’s one of the items I was displeased with

Somebody's gotta fill the seat.

Also, I saw some 53 year olds (maybe a few even younger and good on 'em!). So they don't move the list technically for 2 years. But then they sure do.

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised at the low take-rate from the 63 & 64 year olds. I believe that there are around 550 of them, and only about 40 took it.

Everybody has their reasons for staying an extra 24 months or less rather than taking the offer... but I didn't expect that many would.

One guy I spoke with held off because he would be unable to contribute his own money into Schwab.

Man those are pretty marginal gains if that's the only reason, but everybody has a different situation.

Some of the widebody captains are currently making 40-50 grand a month. Let's say they max their 401k on the first check and their last few dollars of earnings are in the 35% tax rate thats a savings of 9100 on their 26000 401k contribution. Many also have sick banks to burn.

Am I missing something here? I'm still going to be receiving a paycheck for two years (hopefully lol) and I just assumed 401k contributions would continue as before.

Your company contribution will continue. The rub for this particular individual was that he couldn’t continue to put in HIS OWN money.

Sorry to be so dense, I still don't understand.

For two years, I will still be a United Pilot for pay purposes. I will be able to go to my PRAP page, and designate a percentage of my pay to contribute to my 401k on a pre-tax basis. I could even designate a post-tax amount, if I wanted to exceed $64k. Is this not correct?

Thanks.

I made that point and asked that question of him because I didn’t get it either. Sounds like a PDR might be in order.

From PVSL2 FAQ’s,

Q18. Will pilots on P-VSL receive company contributions (employer contributions) to their PRAP?
A. Yes, 16% B/C Plan contribution is the same as for an active pilot.
Q19. Can P-VSL pilots contribute (employee contributions) to the PRAP? A. Yes, it is the same as for an active pilot.
Q20. Will I receive RHA contributions?
A. Yes. These contributions will be the same as for an active pilot.

Sounds like the guy was just making up some BS for why he didn’t want to retire early.....or he just couldn’t be bothered to actually read the offer and make an informed decision.

I agree with you. 63 1/2.....737 CA. He would have lined up perfectly for this; same thing with the last one. I’m not sure how much better he thinks he will do grinding it out to the bitter end.

Maybe he’s hoping to still be here when Insler swaps the RJ scope for a senior-pilot annuity.

probably hoping for them to push age 65 also