Packed & Oversold
03-17-2021, 02:00 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 344
Originally Posted by 123494
I also worry about my health (medical) and if it can last a whole career. I’ve looked into loss of medical insurance. I might as well donate my left nut to cover that.
03-17-2021, 03:06 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: CAP A320
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by duvie
Skepticism is great, my philosophical heart burn is when you get reflexively pessimistic. There’s a pretty important difference, and although I reckon in your heart of hearts you understand the nuance, many people happily consume and regurgitate other peoples’ opinions as their own, without the benefit of having weighed and balanced the competing ideas that lead to the conclusion. When a guy like you can sow humor, wit and charisma into his arguments, it helps people swallow an idea that is largely devoid of nuance (all management is bad), that reduces our ability to accurately assess what is going on.
I know you understand that Kirby is a different animal than Tilton or Smisek, but your posts don’t reflect that. And as for your beef with TI, I don’t know him personally, but I still haven’t heard or seen anything to indicate he is a bad faith actor.
when everything is a threat, nothing is a threat. That’s where reflexive pessimism gets you. So while I really appreciate your posts as “one take of what’s happening,” I think a lot of people mistake your op-eds for the gospel and become unable to distinguish their frustration with unintended (small) LOA disparities in rewards, from the fact that we are realistically doing WAY WAY better than we should be for a year of sub 50% loads and never before seen cash burn.
I know you understand that Kirby is a different animal than Tilton or Smisek, but your posts don’t reflect that. And as for your beef with TI, I don’t know him personally, but I still haven’t heard or seen anything to indicate he is a bad faith actor.
when everything is a threat, nothing is a threat. That’s where reflexive pessimism gets you. So while I really appreciate your posts as “one take of what’s happening,” I think a lot of people mistake your op-eds for the gospel and become unable to distinguish their frustration with unintended (small) LOA disparities in rewards, from the fact that we are realistically doing WAY WAY better than we should be for a year of sub 50% loads and never before seen cash burn.
Duvie,
Thanks for spelling it out for Old Mako. Unfortunately, he has become that grumbling grumpy old man that people don't want to be around or make fun of or both. He just doesn't realize it. He thinks his postings of chics with fish make him funny and pertinent. I've been around with plenty of UAL management back to the "UAL is Hemorrhaging" days. They all sucked until Oscar came around. At some point the crusty old farts have to let go and give kudos when it's there slapping them in the face. Doesn't mean we trust without verifying but it's beyond sickening seeing the same old negative remarks from the same old pessimistic stooges. I keep saying to those that retired, go away and do just that - enjoy retirement. What this workforce needs now is continued positive momentum and we do NOT need sourpusses that have no reason to give their opinions when they no longer are employed here. We have about 5 more years of those jaded guys going out the door. I'm hoping they can find a way to come to grips that UAL management and ALPA can put us in a better position. For now, it's no more shrinking to profitability and no more full section 6 negotiations at one time, which gets dragged out for years and years. Gotta get back to my real life with a really hot chic that makes really good fish and I don't need a poster to stare at one on the wall!!
03-17-2021, 10:34 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by fanaticalflyer
Duvie,
Thanks for spelling it out for Old Mako. Unfortunately, he has become that grumbling grumpy old man that people don't want to be around or make fun of or both. He just doesn't realize it. He thinks his postings of chics with fish make him funny and pertinent. I've been around with plenty of UAL management back to the "UAL is Hemorrhaging" days. They all sucked until Oscar came around. At some point the crusty old farts have to let go and give kudos when it's there slapping them in the face. Doesn't mean we trust without verifying but it's beyond sickening seeing the same old negative remarks from the same old pessimistic stooges. I keep saying to those that retired, go away and do just that - enjoy retirement. What this workforce needs now is continued positive momentum and we do NOT need sourpusses that have no reason to give their opinions when they no longer are employed here. We have about 5 more years of those jaded guys going out the door. I'm hoping they can find a way to come to grips that UAL management and ALPA can put us in a better position. For now, it's no more shrinking to profitability and no more full section 6 negotiations at one time, which gets dragged out for years and years. Gotta get back to my real life with a really hot chic that makes really good fish and I don't need a poster to stare at one on the wall!!
Thanks for spelling it out for Old Mako. Unfortunately, he has become that grumbling grumpy old man that people don't want to be around or make fun of or both. He just doesn't realize it. He thinks his postings of chics with fish make him funny and pertinent. I've been around with plenty of UAL management back to the "UAL is Hemorrhaging" days. They all sucked until Oscar came around. At some point the crusty old farts have to let go and give kudos when it's there slapping them in the face. Doesn't mean we trust without verifying but it's beyond sickening seeing the same old negative remarks from the same old pessimistic stooges. I keep saying to those that retired, go away and do just that - enjoy retirement. What this workforce needs now is continued positive momentum and we do NOT need sourpusses that have no reason to give their opinions when they no longer are employed here. We have about 5 more years of those jaded guys going out the door. I'm hoping they can find a way to come to grips that UAL management and ALPA can put us in a better position. For now, it's no more shrinking to profitability and no more full section 6 negotiations at one time, which gets dragged out for years and years. Gotta get back to my real life with a really hot chic that makes really good fish and I don't need a poster to stare at one on the wall!!
03-18-2021, 06:04 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 432
How about we give it a rest with the personal attacks on Mako? I’m not amused by the jaded, funky vocabulary schtick either but I respect his experiences and understand why he comments the way he does. From what I see, he may make comments we don’t like but I don’t believe he makes personal insults like what’s been directed at him.
03-18-2021, 06:31 AM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
Realize that duvie and fanaticalflyer are head company/TI cheerleaders. Cheerleaders to the point that they scream management, management wannabes, or HR union busters.
Mako enjoys a stellar reputation and when he posts, people take notice. His delivery is unique but his points are salient and rooted in historical fact. I have no doubt his posts are viewed as a threat to those wanting to control the company/current MEC narrative. Duvie and fanaticalflyer would love nothing less than attempt to reduce Mako thereby allowing them to control the narrative.
The first time I heard someone referring to the enthusiasm of the “jaded” old legacy pilots retiring, it was spoken by a management pilot. Keep in mind the airline wouldn’t be what it is today if it wasn’t for the deep sacrifices of those legacy pilots 20 years ago. The LOA is funded courtesy of those same legacy pilots. Sorry fanaticalflyer, the legacy pilots have a lot longer than 5 years til retirement.
Comparing current management to previous teams is somewhat invalid because the current state industry is vastly different from that of 15 years ago. Revenue generation through mergers and capacity control has changed the landscape. Duvie, the airlines are here for two reasons, government assistance and the financial markets. $26.2B in long term debt is a byproduct. The debt messaging towards pilots has begun and will continue for the foreseeable future.
No more section 6 negotiations? A management dream that saves them a ton of money. We’re still living under bankruptcy contract provisions of 20 years ago. It’s well beyond the time for a section 6 contract to correct issues that an extension won’t.
Mako enjoys a stellar reputation and when he posts, people take notice. His delivery is unique but his points are salient and rooted in historical fact. I have no doubt his posts are viewed as a threat to those wanting to control the company/current MEC narrative. Duvie and fanaticalflyer would love nothing less than attempt to reduce Mako thereby allowing them to control the narrative.
The first time I heard someone referring to the enthusiasm of the “jaded” old legacy pilots retiring, it was spoken by a management pilot. Keep in mind the airline wouldn’t be what it is today if it wasn’t for the deep sacrifices of those legacy pilots 20 years ago. The LOA is funded courtesy of those same legacy pilots. Sorry fanaticalflyer, the legacy pilots have a lot longer than 5 years til retirement.
Comparing current management to previous teams is somewhat invalid because the current state industry is vastly different from that of 15 years ago. Revenue generation through mergers and capacity control has changed the landscape. Duvie, the airlines are here for two reasons, government assistance and the financial markets. $26.2B in long term debt is a byproduct. The debt messaging towards pilots has begun and will continue for the foreseeable future.
No more section 6 negotiations? A management dream that saves them a ton of money. We’re still living under bankruptcy contract provisions of 20 years ago. It’s well beyond the time for a section 6 contract to correct issues that an extension won’t.
03-18-2021, 08:34 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,158
You guys all might not like what Mako is saying, but you should listen none the less. He, and I, are both this way for a reason. BTW, I believe he is enjoying retirement. Some people enjoy a good verbal spar, even if it's lost on the audience--make it even more fun.
Time and again, management has demonstrated they do not care about labor. We are just a cost number on a spread sheet. The moment they think they can save money by abusing employees, they will.
Scott is currently in favor, that can and will change at some point, hopefully a long time away.
Time and again, management has demonstrated they do not care about labor. We are just a cost number on a spread sheet. The moment they think they can save money by abusing employees, they will.
Scott is currently in favor, that can and will change at some point, hopefully a long time away.
03-18-2021, 09:58 AM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
Back to the topic at hand...
Word from higher ups says current booking rates for the next few months are the highest UAL has ever seen - EVER!
Even if route/seat capacity is down, the higher prices should make up for it...but, yeah, commuting from FL is gonna suck.
Word from higher ups says current booking rates for the next few months are the highest UAL has ever seen - EVER!
Even if route/seat capacity is down, the higher prices should make up for it...but, yeah, commuting from FL is gonna suck.
Last edited by opheims; 03-18-2021 at 10:00 AM. Reason: add a line
03-18-2021, 10:10 AM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by opheims
Back to the topic at hand...
Word from higher ups says current booking rates for the next few months are the highest UAL has ever seen - EVER!
Even if route/seat capacity is down, the higher prices should make up for it...but, yeah, commuting from FL is gonna suck.
Word from higher ups says current booking rates for the next few months are the highest UAL has ever seen - EVER!
Even if route/seat capacity is down, the higher prices should make up for it...but, yeah, commuting from FL is gonna suck.
Maybe the stimulus check effect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
03-18-2021, 10:54 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by TodKindrsChikun
Realize that duvie and fanaticalflyer are head company/TI cheerleaders. Cheerleaders to the point that they scream management, management wannabes, or HR union busters.
Mako enjoys a stellar reputation and when he posts, people take notice. His delivery is unique but his points are salient and rooted in historical fact. I have no doubt his posts are viewed as a threat to those wanting to control the company/current MEC narrative. Duvie and fanaticalflyer would love nothing less than attempt to reduce Mako thereby allowing them to control the narrative.
The first time I heard someone referring to the enthusiasm of the “jaded” old legacy pilots retiring, it was spoken by a management pilot. Keep in mind the airline wouldn’t be what it is today if it wasn’t for the deep sacrifices of those legacy pilots 20 years ago. The LOA is funded courtesy of those same legacy pilots. Sorry fanaticalflyer, the legacy pilots have a lot longer than 5 years til retirement.
Comparing current management to previous teams is somewhat invalid because the current state industry is vastly different from that of 15 years ago. Revenue generation through mergers and capacity control has changed the landscape. Duvie, the airlines are here for two reasons, government assistance and the financial markets. $26.2B in long term debt is a byproduct. The debt messaging towards pilots has begun and will continue for the foreseeable future.
No more section 6 negotiations? A management dream that saves them a ton of money. We’re still living under bankruptcy contract provisions of 20 years ago. It’s well beyond the time for a section 6 contract to correct issues that an extension won’t.
Mako enjoys a stellar reputation and when he posts, people take notice. His delivery is unique but his points are salient and rooted in historical fact. I have no doubt his posts are viewed as a threat to those wanting to control the company/current MEC narrative. Duvie and fanaticalflyer would love nothing less than attempt to reduce Mako thereby allowing them to control the narrative.
The first time I heard someone referring to the enthusiasm of the “jaded” old legacy pilots retiring, it was spoken by a management pilot. Keep in mind the airline wouldn’t be what it is today if it wasn’t for the deep sacrifices of those legacy pilots 20 years ago. The LOA is funded courtesy of those same legacy pilots. Sorry fanaticalflyer, the legacy pilots have a lot longer than 5 years til retirement.
Comparing current management to previous teams is somewhat invalid because the current state industry is vastly different from that of 15 years ago. Revenue generation through mergers and capacity control has changed the landscape. Duvie, the airlines are here for two reasons, government assistance and the financial markets. $26.2B in long term debt is a byproduct. The debt messaging towards pilots has begun and will continue for the foreseeable future.
No more section 6 negotiations? A management dream that saves them a ton of money. We’re still living under bankruptcy contract provisions of 20 years ago. It’s well beyond the time for a section 6 contract to correct issues that an extension won’t.
painting all critics of oldmako as the same is just as intellectually lazy. I’ve never called him pathetic, etc. ... obviously anyone on the forum is guilty of the same thing he is by definition: Arguing with strangers when they could be enjoying retirement, or hanging out with their kids, or building their next adventure vehicle. And in fact I’ve said his awesome writing ability is a detriment to an accurate assessment of what’s going on, not that he is a jerk or unintelligent.
life is complicated. Much more complicated than I’ll ever understand, but I don’t think the answer is to simplify things and group people into narrow identities because you don’t agree with one of their opinions.
to answer your other point, we are not in this fortunate situation because of one factor. Be at Kirby, Insler, or the government. It is a confluence of many things, but we are incredibly fortunate and I think keeping that in mind is as important for your mental health as anything.
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