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-   -   Packed & Oversold (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/133315-packed-oversold.html)

WhiskyWhisky 03-11-2021 09:29 AM

Packed & Oversold
 
Trying to commute open seats the next 3 weeks is next to impossible. Most every domestic route is either at capacity, oversold, or eventually oversold with 24 hours of the flight, down to pilots fighting over the jumpseat. Why isn't United adding more capacity, equipment increase, or frequency back? Clearly there is demand for it. Many of the routes such as MKE DEN, CID DEN, MSN DEN, used to have 3 or 4 737/A320 flights a day. Most non-hub pairings now have 2 CRJ flights a day if you are lucky. Commuters nightmare. Isn't it time to beef up the routes?

MasterOfPuppets 03-11-2021 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by WhiskyWhisky (Post 3205703)
Trying to commute open seats the next 3 weeks is next to impossible. Most every domestic route is either at capacity, oversold, or eventually oversold with 24 hours of the flight, down to pilots fighting over the jumpseat. Why isn't United adding more capacity, equipment increase, or frequency back? Clearly there is demand for it. Many of the routes such as MKE DEN, CID DEN, MSN DEN, used to have 3 or 4 737/A320 flights a day. Most non-hub pairings now have 2 CRJ flights a day if you are lucky. Commuters nightmare. Isn't it time to beef up the routes?

ticket prices are way to low. I think you will see ticket prices increase back toward 2019 levels or higher prior to adding flights. No reason to carry passengers if the tickets are to cheap to pay for the flight.

CANEWT 03-11-2021 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 3205736)
ticket prices are way to low. I think you will see ticket prices increase back toward 2019 levels or higher prior to adding flights. No reason to carry passengers if the tickets are to cheap to pay for the flight.


Yes there is. It’s called market share.

MasterOfPuppets 03-11-2021 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by CANEWT (Post 3205796)
Yes there is. It’s called market share.

market share doesn’t matter on spirit level airfares. How many people will follow United when the fare goes from $70-$200?

When we finally raise our fares we will lose a lot of passengers. set the fare at $200 then go for market share.

MagooFlew 03-15-2021 04:10 PM

You don’t have to make money, just lose a little less than the competition. (I don’t have to outrun the bear.. I just have to outrun you...) Price the seats out of the market at these low rates too fast and you got trouble.

voodiloquist 03-15-2021 04:20 PM

Another highly experienced business MBA wizard pilot who knows more than the actual businessman.

Chuck D 03-15-2021 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by MagooFlew (Post 3207460)
You don’t have to make money, just lose a little less than the competition. (I don’t have to outrun the bear.. I just have to outrun you...) Price the seats out of the market at these low rates too fast and you got trouble.

buddy u've got the wisdom on this u shud polish up that app for the next airline ceo position u see bro

make sure u include ur turbine PIC and all those other relevant metrics and it's a slam dunk

NavyGimp 03-15-2021 06:43 PM

I've had to sit in the Jumpseat on the last 3 flights I've taken. CRJ200, A319, ERJ175

Huell 03-16-2021 03:37 AM

Full planes suck.
Revenue to offset the daily expenses sucks.
Sooner or later everyone is going to have to go back to flying a full schedule and no more paid time off ... that will really suck.

Pilots ... someone could hand him a solid gold brick and he would complain that it didn’t have a blue ribbon tied around it.

bigfatdaddy 03-16-2021 06:25 AM


Originally Posted by Huell (Post 3207646)
Full planes suck.
Revenue to offset the daily expenses sucks.
Sooner or later everyone is going to have to go back to flying a full schedule and no more paid time off ... that will really suck.

Pilots ... someone could hand him a solid gold brick and he would complain that it didn’t have a blue ribbon tied around it.


....or a red ribbon!

captive apple 03-16-2021 06:35 AM

Ticket prices ARE NOT cheap across the board.

Huell 03-16-2021 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by bigfatdaddy (Post 3207704)
....or a red ribbon!

The red pilots don’t want a red ribbon ... they want their gold brick wrapped in a Gasden flag ...

CleCapt 03-16-2021 07:17 AM

Famous Gordon Bethune quote

They’re drowning in 100’ of water.

We’re drowning in 10’ of water.

BUT we’re all drowning !

WhiskyWhisky 03-16-2021 09:45 AM

I've been bumped off of 3 flights in the last 2 weeks, including the jumpseat and had to resort to a jumpseat two times on the flights I did make it on. Looking today, loads are showing -6, -3, -11, -3..... 175's, and CRJs.... that used to be served by 737s and A320s.
For the love of god.

oldmako 03-16-2021 09:59 AM

Don't worry. Todd and Scott are on it.

duvie 03-16-2021 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207778)
Don't worry. Todd and Scott are on it.

for your all of your distain of the politicking at our MEC, you sure never miss the chance to throw out crowd pleasers.

You’re either thicker than your rhetorical abilities indicate, or you enjoy public adoration more than you care to admit.

don’t worry… Just toss out a picture of a scantily clad lady, call someone a Marvin, management plant, or ALPA lackey and most of your fan boys won’t look too deeply at the holes in your arguments

fanaticalflyer 03-16-2021 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207778)
Don't worry. Todd and Scott are on it.

They actually are and have been doing a phenomenal job. Again why are you still on this forum? You have no life since you left UAL but still have to give your useless input. What a shame. Spent your whole life flying but have no friends or nothing to do in retirement. I feel pity for you........ I really do. And to keep your self of relevance, you post chics with fish. Loser

Airhoss 03-16-2021 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by duvie (Post 3207811)
for your all of your distain of the politicking at our MEC, you sure never miss the chance to throw out crowd pleasers.

You’re either thicker than your rhetorical abilities indicate, or you enjoy public adoration more than you care to admit.

don’t worry… Just toss out a picture of a scantily clad lady, call someone a Marvin, management plant, or ALPA lackey and most of your fan boys won’t look too deeply at the holes in your arguments

Dude don’t be a Marvin, I like his fishing pictures. :)

Huell 03-16-2021 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 3207838)
Dude don’t be a Marvin, I like his fishing pictures. :)

I wish he would figure out how to do some scratch and sniff tuna.

Airhoss 03-16-2021 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by Huell (Post 3207842)
I wish he would figure out how to do some scratch and sniff tuna.

You can get it on Amazon now.

N6279P 03-16-2021 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207778)
Don't worry. Todd and Scott are on it.

I can’t imagine a CEO doing a better job then Scott has done in the past year.

duvie 03-16-2021 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 3207838)
Dude don’t be a Marvin, I like his fishing pictures. :)

I once had an interesting conversation with a recruiter for the CIA… He told me that 95% of all men can be compromised by at least 1 of the 3 Bs: booze, babes or bank accounts. As pilots, we are probably overly susceptible to all three :-)

you can certainly love Pictures of women who are paid to pretend like they are enjoying your favorite hobby… But you can separate that from a dude who, although intelligent and funny, has so much anger for management, that he would absolutely cut off his nose to spite his face.

The real question is if in 2004 oldmako (and others) could keep his seat AND his seniority in it for 10-20% less pay/days at work.... it’s obviously not IF, but WHAT would he give to have had that opportunity. As it stands now, you have guys like him pretending like this LOA is a bad deal. It is so disingenuous and motivated by a variety of things other than pragmatism and the health of our pilot group and the airline as a whole (which is obviously beneficial to us... again).

oldmako 03-16-2021 02:15 PM

I can't believe how easily triggered some of you are. Thanks for meeting my expectations. I stick around just to annoy certain people.

Carry on!
https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/p...fyzycwhnjv.jpg

duvie 03-16-2021 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207873)
I can't believe how easily triggered some of you are. Thanks for meeting my expectations. I stick around just to annoy certain people.

Carry on!

to quote you directly: ab hominem much?

oldmako 03-16-2021 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by duvie (Post 3207876)
to quote you directly: ab hominem much?

Touché Duvie!

oldmako 03-16-2021 03:35 PM

Please excuse my skepticism. It's not my intention to micturate on your barbeque. I got hired in the late ESOP days. Unicorns, rainbows, all that, and was convinced that UA was going to be different. Nothing but a big plate of bonhomie! Most of the old guys were non-plussed and told me why. They were ultimately proven right.

Prior to UA, I was the lucky recipient of wonderful treatment by several other aviation enterprises. Only ONE of which never went Chap 11. Several simply went right out of business on payday leaving the employees holding the bag as creditors.

It's in my DNA. I hope for your sake that it won't be shoved into yours in the future.

123494 03-16-2021 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207906)
Please excuse my skepticism. It's not my intention to micturate on your barbeque. I got hired in the late ESOP days. Unicorns, rainbows, all that, and was convinced that UA was going to be different. Nothing but a big plate of bonhomie! Most of the old guys were non-plussed and told me why. They were ultimately proven right.

Prior to UA, I was the lucky recipient of wonderful treatment by several other aviation enterprises. Only ONE of which never went Chap 11. Several simply went right out of business on payday leaving the employees holding the bag as creditors.

It's in my DNA. I hope for your sake that it won't be shoved into yours in the future.

I’ve started to realize I don’t want to rely on those in charge for a pay check. I’m thinking I’m better off relying on my own abilities to be able to pay myself. It’s all smoke and mirrors with these companies.

John Carr 03-16-2021 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 3207838)
Dude don’t be a Marvin, I like his fishing pictures. :)

Im still waiting for him to combine fishing, drones, and his new truck into his pics.

Ya know, diversity and stuff.

123494 03-16-2021 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by John Carr (Post 3207917)
Im still waiting for him to combine fishing, drones, and his new truck into his pics.

Ya know, diversity and stuff.

I kind of feel bad for Mako. Sad life.

MasterOfPuppets 03-16-2021 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by WhiskyWhisky (Post 3207770)
I've been bumped off of 3 flights in the last 2 weeks, including the jumpseat and had to resort to a jumpseat two times on the flights I did make it on. Looking today, loads are showing -6, -3, -11, -3..... 175's, and CRJs.... that used to be served by 737s and A320s.
For the love of god.

don’t know about your route but things will look a lot better in May.

TodKindrsChikun 03-16-2021 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207873)
I can't believe how easily triggered some of you are. Thanks for meeting my expectations. I stick around just to annoy certain people.

Carry on!
https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/p...fyzycwhnjv.jpg

There has to be a CORE 4 correlation in that pic. Mandingo?

Galaxy5 03-16-2021 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207873)
I can't believe how easily triggered some of you are. Thanks for meeting my expectations. I stick around just to annoy certain people.

Carry on!
https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/p...fyzycwhnjv.jpg

Easily the only thing the Texans have going for them.

fanaticalflyer 03-16-2021 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207906)
Please excuse my skepticism. It's not my intention to micturate on your barbeque. I got hired in the late ESOP days. Unicorns, rainbows, all that, and was convinced that UA was going to be different. Nothing but a big plate of bonhomie! Most of the old guys were non-plussed and told me why. They were ultimately proven right.

Prior to UA, I was the lucky recipient of wonderful treatment by several other aviation enterprises. Only ONE of which never went Chap 11. Several simply went right out of business on payday leaving the employees holding the bag as creditors.

It's in my DNA. I hope for your sake that it won't be shoved into yours in the future.


Yup, and still a loser. Keep posting your lame fish chicks while sitting at home alone talking about those fake "There I was story, and who I was with garbage". Grow up and quit acting like a teenager with chic posters all over your wall. Never seen such a continual display of lame, jaded posts by someone that should be enjoying retirement. Again, such a shame. Feel sorry for those around you.

Huell 03-17-2021 02:24 AM


Originally Posted by 123494 (Post 3207910)
I’ve started to realize I don’t want to rely on those in charge for a pay check. I’m thinking I’m better off relying on my own abilities to be able to pay myself. It’s all smoke and mirrors with these companies.

Flight school I worked for went bankrupt. Restarted a year or so later but I left before it finally shut down.

Then went to a sleaze bag 135 operator with marginal planes and pilot pushers and an accident record and body count to show for the effort. They have always been profitable and are still in operation.

Corporation I flew for sold their plane.

The regional I flew for was not bad ... other than low pay ... but they shut down years ago.

Major airline 1 shut down.

Major airline 2 shut down.

Major airline 3 went Bk then terminated pensions but they are still operating.and lasted for my 29 years.

This is a tough bidness.

duvie 03-17-2021 05:39 AM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3207906)
Please excuse my skepticism. It's not my intention to micturate on your barbeque. I got hired in the late ESOP days. Unicorns, rainbows, all that, and was convinced that UA was going to be different. Nothing but a big plate of bonhomie! Most of the old guys were non-plussed and told me why. They were ultimately proven right.

Prior to UA, I was the lucky recipient of wonderful treatment by several other aviation enterprises. Only ONE of which never went Chap 11. Several simply went right out of business on payday leaving the employees holding the bag as creditors.

It's in my DNA. I hope for your sake that it won't be shoved into yours in the future.

Skepticism is great, my philosophical heart burn is when you get reflexively pessimistic. There’s a pretty important difference, and although I reckon in your heart of hearts you understand the nuance, many people happily consume and regurgitate other peoples’ opinions as their own, without the benefit of having weighed and balanced the competing ideas that lead to the conclusion. When a guy like you can sow humor, wit and charisma into his arguments, it helps people swallow an idea that is largely devoid of nuance (all management is bad), that reduces our ability to accurately assess what is going on.

I know you understand that Kirby is a different animal than Tilton or Smisek, but your posts don’t reflect that. And as for your beef with TI, I don’t know him personally, but I still haven’t heard or seen anything to indicate he is a bad faith actor.

when everything is a threat, nothing is a threat. That’s where reflexive pessimism gets you. So while I really appreciate your posts as “one take of what’s happening,” I think a lot of people mistake your op-eds for the gospel and become unable to distinguish their frustration with unintended (small) LOA disparities in rewards, from the fact that we are realistically doing WAY WAY better than we should be for a year of sub 50% loads and never before seen cash burn.

123494 03-17-2021 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by Huell (Post 3208059)
Flight school I worked for went bankrupt. Restarted a year or so later but I left before it finally shut down.

Then went to a sleaze bag 135 operator with marginal planes and pilot pushers and an accident record and body count to show for the effort. They have always been profitable and are still in operation.

Corporation I flew for sold their plane.

The regional I flew for was not bad ... other than low pay ... but they shut down years ago.

Major airline 1 shut down.

Major airline 2 shut down.

Major airline 3 went Bk then terminated pensions but they are still operating.and lasted for my 29 years.

This is a tough bidness.

I know, I know. You’re a tough guy who has been around forever and seen everything there is to see. How can I thank you? Your tenacity is nothing short of breathtaking.

Airhoss 03-17-2021 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by 123494 (Post 3208109)
I know, I know. You’re a tough guy who has been around forever and seen everything there is to see. How can I thank you? Your tenacity is nothing short of breathtaking.

Apparently the comment to which you are replying went right over your head. TCAS alert DESCEND DESCEND NOW!

He’s agreeing with you sunshine.... If you can hang your shingle and go at it as your own man you’d better do it. Not having to count on corporate dirt bags for your living is a beautiful thing.

And it’s becoming more difficult all the time.

123494 03-17-2021 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 3208136)
Apparently the comment to which you are replying went right over your head. TCAS alert DESCEND DESCEND NOW!

He’s agreeing with you sunshine.... If you can hang your shingle and go at it as your own man you’d better do it. Not having to count on corporate dirt bags for your living is a beautiful thing.

And it’s becoming more difficult all the time.

Airhoss, you’re right. I was quick to reply and it didn’t occur to me. I’m thinking this is the way for me to go as well. I will miss the DC contribution to the 401(k) but there’s more to life than money that I probably will never spend.

3EngineTaxi 03-17-2021 08:33 AM


Originally Posted by 123494 (Post 3208154)
Airhoss, you’re right. I was quick to reply and it didn’t occur to me. I’m thinking this is the way for me to go as well. I will miss the DC contribution to the 401(k) but there’s more to life than money that I probably will never spend.

Since you’re already a millionaire in your 20s, I think you have everything figured out already.

123494 03-17-2021 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by 3EngineTaxi (Post 3208162)
Since you’re already a millionaire in your 20s, I think you have everything figured out already.

I wish it were that easy. I always find myself thinking I’m not good enough.


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