UPS TA proposal
 

Here are the UPS rates.

https://i.imgur.com/CwZoBXy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Tsh6xJU.jpg

So it looks like they got 11%, 3%, 3%. Not earth shattering. Wonder what other improvements are included.

I think they pulled in some gains on their pension as well.

That said, look at the dates. Sept 2023, 24 and 25

From a friend below:

UPS pilots have negotiated a tentative agreement (TA).
So their A-Fund pension is $4,650 x YOS (years of service, 30 max) = $139,500 per year in retirement.
They also used to get 12% B fund. No detail yet what the increase in B fund looks like.
81 hour monthly guarantee.
They got a contract in 2016 with 14.65% pay increase at date of signing and 3% every year since, 4% in 2021 and 3% in 2022.


United has the same work rules since 2012 ... and pay rates unchanged from Jan 2019.

No inc in B fund, no chg in work rules

It’s a contract extension not a new CBA.

That’s what winning looks like

Their single rate across all fleets makes a lot more sense than what we’re doing.

But we have no idea of what “we’re doing” yet?

So you are saying the senior WB CA’s are ok with freezing/taking a pay cut to bring the NB CA rates up?

I want some of the wacky weed you are smoking

Of course they're not but that's where the industry is headed. Single banded pay is probably our best hope of arresting the developing inversion where regional captains earn more than legacy wide body captains. We need single banded pay ASAP and if guys are mad about it they can always become check airmen at a regional. Actually that would be awesome. If you have less than 5 years remaining in your career then it's best for everyone if you're paired with a short-lived regional too.

11/4/4. So you're saying an 11/4/4 extension would be winning?

To parrot every other post, that doesn't even keep up with the inflation from 2019 to now.

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Our company spends a lot of money on training and soon will spend a lot on LCAs and PIs. What if we employed single rate across all fleets and it didn’t come at the expense or pay cut of wide body pilots but came from cost savings within the company?

With that said, UPS is the only one doing this so they are either the smartest or dumbest in the room.

IMO it would mean a major QOL hit for junior pilots. Today your QOL is driven by seniority in one of many small pools (BES) and relatively junior pilots can 'be senior' by staying on the bus or guppy in a junior base. Pay by seniority would all but guarantee a flattening of the seniority across the airline.

woo everybody gets widebody pay the savings are so crazy we’ve totally misread our business model all these decades please make this guy the CFO

I love how these new hires magically know the best way to run the airline and it always is some pay or work rule scheme that gets them more money or gives them super bidding out of seniority.

LCAs at Envoy making $420 an hour and you’re about to see a huge pay increase for UAL LCAs, ok. Laugh it up.

you’re right my bad. Let’s match their contract word for word. everyone gets a pony or whatever Envoy gets.

this is so colossally dumb and we haven’t even seen a TA yet.

What am I missing I see 4, 3.25, 3.25

maybe we are doing that…???

I just used the published current UPS rates from the APC profile page. Maybe I'm missing something.

Those numbers are from our last contract extension 2 years ago

United will never be industry leading
 

United has ZERO, NADA, NOTHING for a pension..and the pilots are unwilling to even fight for one.

Gotcha the last chart has the the 2022 rate and the subsequent rates are 4%, 3.25%, 3.25% better

why would someone fight for something they don’t want?

I've got an idea! Lets use our 16% to buy company stock! YGTBSM

Screwing over the senior bros with a single pay band is a good first step but it doesn't go far enough. I propose we let management, not seniority, be the gatekeeper for top paying positions, e.g. check airmen and flight instructor. Honestly even just the latter would be a step in the right direction as long as the narrow body check airmen rate is higher than widebody captain. Hopefully we get both, but I'll settle for one of these.

Actually, that’s how it is now.

I have it on good authority there will be no pony in this contract.

Bit of a side track but a true story.

Years ago I saw a guy in Newark grabbing a whole bunch of those contractually required granola bars in the CPO and put them in his bag. I made a comment about how I'm glad to see at least one person actually eats these. He said "Hell no, they aren't for me - but my horse absolutely loves them."

We laugh, but the no pony thing may be a deal breaker...

Temporarily and it’s only for block hours where they are acting as a LCA. The reason they are getting that is the alternative is quite literally shutting the regional airlines down. Those LCA’s who choose to stay for those rates have quite literally sold their soul to the devil and for every dollar they make they will lose 10 times that amount in lifetime earnings. The program is quite literally designed to stop DAL and UAL from grabbing them and flow them to American several years later. This was brought on by the massive early out programs at the majors. That will get caught up and hiring will slow. Delta already projects they will catch up this spring and cut hiring in half.

I’m saying everyone benefited by having a single rate through their careers at UPS.

I’m not eluding to the upcoming AiP. I’m talking present-tense. I highly doubt a single rate would be proposed here and I don’t care to read through a group of internet yokels fighting about it anyway. Carry on.

It turns out that 4/4/4 at United is pretty reasonable.

It’s not for any airline covering 2019- the end of any current agreement.

Inflation is 8.6% the last year alone.

So what is the UPS deal in first year, 11% or 4%?

4%. the hourly figures on APC aren’t up to date.

Good job negotiating in public prior to the MEC passing anything, folks.

This type of paranoia just makes no sense whatsoever. Do you really think the company has no clue about what pilots want. Every single TA and LOA has passed membership ratification in the last 20 years! These forums are always in the minority anyway. Except for the Extension LOA, the consensus on the forums has always been “This thing sucks, I’m voting NO” - yet it always passes.

There’s nothing wrong with talking about what we want or expect…UAL ALPA doesn’t seem to care, maybe our fellow forum-ites will.

Maybe for you...I don't really like horses,