Is this technique or procedure?
 

My airline says if you are off the pavement you are dead in the water. Do NOT try to recover.

They had already taken the passengers off when this was attempted. They defueled and still couldn't get it out.

FOD inspection to commence.

The rest of the story…. Thanks.

your airline made the captain a chief pilot when he went off the pavement and not only that , he tried to cover it and got his atp suspended

ask around about BTR

So, was it Tech Ops or pilots trying to get it out?

Was this a single engine taxi fuel saving opportunity? Just checking.

Where is the link to FSAP and IORs again ?
As most Cappys always say , “ You don’t have to do it this way ,this is just my technique “.😂
Glad no one or nothing was hurt besides their ego’s.

Looks like a wet ramp. He appears to be facing the bright lights of the terminal. Reflective water hides the yellow line and taxiway markers look the same from every direction so if 4 are lined up on two adjacent taxiways then it looks like another taxiway that isn't really there. I've taken a turn like this before except I was slow enough to see the grass when it appeared from side scatter in my taxi lights and corrected in time to find the actual turn-off 100' further. This is actually a really easy mistake to make. Since then I've had this recurring dream where I run off a taxiway on a dark and stormy night and then sit around smiling at the passengers after we deplane in the mud and they try to keep dry holding the seatback magazines over their heads. What a night!

Another MAX that headed for the mud.

I can’t control individuals not following the rules.

https://youtu.be/IrqN62qbthc?t=198

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/V5...-no?authuser=0

That was awsome! "That's one nice thing about the 737, it can do anything but read..."

According to the original Twitter post, the aircraft rolled backward after pushback by tug.

"Brakes set, pressure normal"

a few questions…

Was it a pilot at the controls? How long had the captain been a captain?
Looks like this power-out attempt was coordinated with the airport? What was in front of the jet? Behind?
towing it out was not an option?
was the parking brake not set after pushback?
Howd they finally get it unstuck?

This is fact.

Reminds me of the 757 that bounced the landing and went on and off the pavement at EWR, and collapsed the nose gear. What ever was the final determination?
I know it was a new FO getting OE from a new OE captain.

Is this technique or procedure?
 

The final determination was that they screwed up. The check airmen lost the LCA qualification and the new FO was sent back for more training.

Zero chance a line pilot was at those controls . I would bet it was a MX function . Who would subject them selves to that esp if it was a push back screw up .

Story I heard was it was an error and a mechanical failure during pushback. Ended up breaking away from the tug somehow and rolled onto the grass after a deep push. No clue who was setting toga to try and get out.

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20190615-0

“Lost.”

Never should’ve had it in the first place.

Anyone can make a mistake . You weren’t there , you don’t know exactly what happened. But I suppose you never made a mistake . When you get a second, could you turn this water into wine , feed the multitude with a loaf of bread and heal the sick ? Walk across Lake Michigan while you’re at it , oh perfect one .
All of the LCAs at UA that I have flown with so far have been excellent. I learned a lot from each one . I know LCAs train for that sort of thing but anything can happen to anyone at anytime. Doesn’t mean you’re not qualified to be in that position.

I agree with you but in that situation there is more to the story. I believe there is a lawsuit that she didn't recieve proper LCA training. A lot of finger pointing.

It also raises big questions with our TA1 ... we are doubling the number of instructors and check airman by throwing money at them. Are we going to keep that same level of instructor or check airman going forward? The instructors are already pulling down big money and the pool of good people that want to do that are doing it. I fear we are pulling in mediocre to bad instructors who are there for the paycheck. Could we be pulling in better people from other bases if you improve job share or month to month options or qol improvements? I don't know but the people that are good at that type of thing aren't very plentiful.

Two sides to every story, indeed. I went through a lot of schools during my time and most were excellent LCA.s. Two, however, were not. One was only an LCA only because he wanted the commuter benefits that come along with the job. I learned more from the bunkie on that trip than I did from the captain. Another was more interested in the prestige that comes along with that "fifth stripe" and was a bit of a control freak. Outliers both, but they are out there. Just because you haven't had the experience doesn't mean they're not out there. Just like Chief Pilots.

I know exactly what happened, as well as the circumstances before and after with said LCA. Won’t post on a public forum.

I wonder what this place is going to look like in 10 years. Heck, 5 years. Good post.

The FO on the flight told me what happened, a few days later at the schoolhouse. He was a new hire, as I recall. The Check airman was new and described to me as a AAA pilot.

The narrative in the NTSB report differs substantially from what the FO told me.

Part of the reason for this was the stupid upset recovery technique being trained at the time.

If you're so "in the know" then why would you even post that first comment?

Did it add anything to the conversation other than "I can take a dump on one of our own publicly because I have the inside scoop, but I can't share the inside scoop..."

Disgusting.

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Im not sure which TA you were looking at but there was no money thrown at LCA’s on TA 1. Do you feel that the extra work, stress, and risk LCA’s are subject to should be a voluntary thing? That they LCA’s should subject themselves to all that out of a sense of duty to their fellow line pilots, free of compensation? They darn well should be offering a premium for LCA work, and they definitely didn’t.

I was shocked at the massive insulting kick in the guts TA1 was in regards to what they offered LCA’s. Especially after SK has repeatedly mentioned that they are going to fix the dismal override LCA’s are putting up with currently. If that was managements idea of a fix we are SOL.

I/E (PI) pay was off the charts good. I’m thinking MH being a career PI might have influenced that a bit. But the truth of the matter is, if people are taking a pay cut by being at TK they aren’t going to stay there except for a few core folks who have built their lives around the TK schedule. The PUP thing was a management attempt to slide in a stop gap and drastically reduce their costs at the training center. Within 5 years TK was going to be staffed by retired pilots making 1/3rd of what a PI makes now.

ANY LEC rep who voted yes on this TA must be recalled NOW!

LAX is up next

If you knew WTF you were talking about you’d be embarrassed by your own sanctimony.

Actually, I do know "WTF" I'm talking about. And this:

"Never should’ve had it in the first place."

Served no purpose except to provide a segway for a self aggrandizing display of how "in the know" you are, at the expense of one of our own.

YOU should be embarrassed.

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So you’re totally read in on the tumultuous history and circumstances of hiring said instructor and the reckless actions that led to a hull loss and are ok with that. Got it.

He?

not sure you were talking to the correct pilot.

Not what I said at all, you should improve your deflection skills. My issue is with your comments on a public forum about the situation. So I'll ask again, what did you add to the discussion that was worth publicly insulting one of our pilots?


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Vote to close the thread. It’s now a conversation about an unrelated incident.

Agreed, we can all agree/see that the MAX is not an appropriate vehicle in which to go muddin' and thank the heavens above that it was not "me" in that situation.