Originally Posted by Hedley

Starting in a few months we will have a new plane being delivered approximately every 3 days. In the past captain vacancies came at a much slower pace and there were sufficient numbers wanting to upgrade. Today there are an unprecedented number of vacancies. Part of the lack of interest is contractual (a big part), part could be generational. Younger pilots today tend to place less emphasis on money and more on time off and QOL than previous generations. So what is the best solution that would be acceptable to both the pilot group and the company?

1. Better work rules, especially dealing with reserve to take the sting out of being junior in the seat. What realistic (meaning that both sides would accept) rules would be needed?

2. Widen the gap in pay between captain and first officer to encourage those more financially motivated to bid captain? Would a significant difference in pay encourage senior pilots to bid off of the WB and into a NB captain seat?

Originally Posted by Mitch Rapp

I really hope the NC is against #2. BOTH pay and work rules need to be improved. FO’s should not be punished with lower pay because United can’t fix its problems. The current pay percentage gap has existed for years and we never had this issue before.

I’m a widebody FO and occasionally bid RSV. It’s gotten terrible lately though. They put you on SC almost every day just because they could.

I would not even consider bidding narrowbody CA right now because Work rules and work life rules make NB CA at most seniority levels SUCK.

Originally Posted by Hedley

Starting in a few months we will have a new plane being delivered approximately every 3 days. In the past captain vacancies came at a much slower pace and there were sufficient numbers wanting to upgrade. Today there are an unprecedented number of vacancies. Part of the lack of interest is contractual (a big part), part could be generational. Younger pilots today tend to place less emphasis on money and more on time off and QOL than previous generations. So what is the best solution that would be acceptable to both the pilot group and the company?

1. Better work rules, especially dealing with reserve to take the sting out of being junior in the seat. What realistic (meaning that both sides would accept) rules would be needed?

2. Widen the gap in pay between captain and first officer to encourage those more financially motivated to bid captain? Would a significant difference in pay encourage senior pilots to bid off of the WB and into a NB captain seat?

3. Slow the expansion to levels that can be maintained without significant improvements to change the status quo?

4. A suitcase that fits the bag storage on the 737?

5. A combination, if so, how to construct it?

Originally Posted by hummingbear

Work rules- especially RSV- need improvements. More days off, commutability, & pay incentives for (voluntary) pickups on am trips, SC, & FSBY.

I also think the pay disparity between seats could come up. Right now, min CA RSV pay just isn’t that much more than what a senior FO can do with good scheduling magic. (During good PPU months it’s less.) Trick is, it can’t come at the expense of the FOs. You need good rate increases on both sides, but an extra addictive to the CA rates. Something like 25/5/5 for everyone with an additional 5/2/2 override to the CA rates. (Just a hooting from the hip, here.)

A more targeted approach to the upgrade issue would be to bump up RSV guarantee. Basically increases the incentive for junior upgrades concerned about getting stuck for months on end at min pay without requiring more payroll costs above the G-line (or when RSV utilization is high.) Another 10 hours would be a significant improvement. I think RSV guarantee was much higher in past contracts, too, so it would really just be returning to a past benefit.

Originally Posted by EwrRocks

This. ^^^^^^

If you think TK and LCA staffing is an issue now, wait to see what happens now if no TA2 is passed soon. For senior TK instructors it’s hard to continue to justify the amount of annual money lost to stay. For junior TK instructors it’s hard to justify the large amount of money lost being capped at FO rates while everyone can hold PIC. More and more TK now commutes because of how expensive it is to buy house in Denver. For LCA, the current pay and QOL issues are burning them out.

United next will be very hard to pull off without a passage TA soon.

Originally Posted by hummingbear

I also think the pay disparity between seats could come up. Right now, min CA RSV pay just isn’t that much more than what a senior FO can do with good scheduling magic. (During good PPU months it’s less.) Trick is, it can’t come at the expense of the FOs. You need good rate increases on both sides, but an extra addictive to the CA rates. Something like 25/5/5 for everyone with an additional 5/2/2 override to the CA rates. (Just a hooting from the hip, here.)

Originally Posted by Hedley

I hope it doesn’t come up, but it’s a possibility that I heard some guys talking about while enjoying a productivity break in a crew room the other day. We’ve already divided the group into thirds, so I guess anything is possible around here.

Originally Posted by WarEagle28

personally I think the number is15DOS/5/5…plus another 5 when LOA kicks in early 2023…that’s my guess… oh yeah and there has to be a serious renovation with the reserve rules… if you want people to bid captain, make it enticing

Originally Posted by Hedley

I hope it doesn’t come up, but it’s a possibility that I heard some guys talking about while enjoying a productivity break in a crew room the other day. We’ve already divided the group into thirds, so I guess anything is possible around here.

Originally Posted by hummingbear

I don’t think it need be a divisive thing. It’s accepted industry wide that a CA assumes more responsibility for the operation, and therefore merits greater pay. The question is just whether our current rates strike the right balance. Present circumstances suggest many feel the amount of increased pay does not justify the added burden. (On paper upgrade on a NB fleet is around a 50% raise; but when you figure loss of productivity due to decreased relative seniority, it can come out to something more like 25%.)

It’s not a matter of taking pay from FOs- just adding more to the CA scales. Anything that kept the FOs below inflation would be a hard no from me, but as long as everyone is moving upwards, I could get on board with a long-term plan to increase the financial incentive to upgrade.