Delta AIP
 

Details.

Good leads the way (Not applicable to contract negotiations apparently). Best we can do is 5% and a new Lock Screen.

According to SK the company wants an industry leading contract but didn’t want to agree to something just to be leapfrogged by DL or AA. Well the bar has been set and it’s way more expensive than the pilot group would have accepted over the summer. Time for the company to pony up and offer the contract they claim to want/know they need

That’s what real Union results look like.

I need to send a thank you card to Robert Isom. If AA hadn’t blown up our TA we’d have been stuck with that turd UALPA was pushing.

That first class deadhead agreement language is BS. We should be moving forward if anything on that.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Think our boys will be working through the weekend to get us an AIP by years end? NOPE.

This AIP puts our failed TA to shame in literally every other way though.

The company/ALPA was going to turn lineholders into FSB, their AIP will pay extra for reroutes and either put you back on your original trip or release you with pay when you pass through base.

TA1 was on a totally different plane of existence than this AIP. I’m embarrassed our deal ever saw the light of day.

Your group had the stones to turn yours down, and so did AA. That sent a message to all of our management’s that we would not accept lackluster agreements. I was hoping for better back pay, but the soft money items are much better than we had so it’s still a decent agreement. Now you all need to go out and beat ours by a few percent and get a DAL+1% me too clause so we can keep ratcheting up off each other each month or year. I’m sure it’s only revisited each year unfortunately, if it was a monthly thing, we would have made it to where we all deserve to be in a year or two.

Our NC will be agreeing to a 13% DOS since they just gave us 5%. Watch.

Yeah no way are we gonna ever see this...starting to fly sate on Monday...
if it wasn't for AA sticking a finger into SK we would have TUMI...sword fights did COEX in and it's gonna do SK in also...his vision isn't this...but its mine or better...wait till he sees how long it takes me to get through security now ...im going with the PAX's

https://contentsharing.net/actions/e...D-Hy3VsU3LvqlY

the deets

DAL’s AIP allows for 2 bites at the “me too” Apple. One each for UA and AA.

We only had the stones to turn it down after AA immediately offered the exact same deal because it was such a con. Had that not happened I think there were enough “well we should lock in some gains now before the economy goes south” or “I’m not on reserve so I don’t care” or “we’ll it’s just a little scope give” people to at least get it close to 50%.

”FSB”? (Delta guy)

Field Stand By. Airport reserve.

If the company wants to fill new hire classes they better beat these rates quickly. Not sure why anyone would want to come to United with Delta having pay 34% mor than us. Better call Boeing and tell them to get rid of some of those orders because we cant’ staff them.

Its not immediately 34% although I wish it was

Dear Christ stop. Forget the rates. Stop looking at rates. Everything else is what matters. Looking at rates is why we have the moronic distinction that allows the company to staff widebody flying with less reserves than necessary. It's why we allow pilots to sit at the airport on reserve. Etc.

Stop looking at rates.


Do they matter? Yes. But they're the last thing you should give a **** about when comparing deltas AIP and our contract.

Deltas CURRENT contract obliterates us as is.

It’s a consideration.

18 hour callout for LCR sounds pretty sweet.

Well we clearly see what not throwing a punch gets you vs actually using the weight of a unified pilot group to get what you deserve. What still sickens me is 6% of pilots voted for the Tumi Turd, do they really value their labor so poorly that they would accept a surrender, Tumi wasn’t a concessionary it was a surrender contract? And the LEC wastes of space who voted to send it to the rank and file…they were either so incompetent they didn’t read it, or they were so out of touch they thought it was a good deal, either way I’m not sure what’s worse. Actually doubling down and not resigning is worse. We are a laughing stock of the industry and actually set the bar so low for DL, we ended up hurting their negotiating position. Way to go UAL MEC. Any any LEC and remaining MEC who were involved in Tumi turd need to take a long hard look in the mirror and evaluate all the decision they have made in their lives.

THIS x1000000

Why not have both? In those todays market where the information is out there and every new first officer has 3 offers you have to compete and be close in rates and qol

YES. Rates AND work rules AND Scope AND Retirement matter. I don’t get why so many of you keep saying rates are not a big deal.

Good leads the way! I mean “Delta Leads the Way!”

even if we got 18 hour lcr, it wouldn’t matter because we could still get hit with short call and FSB, every single day. If there’s no protection against unlimited SC/FSB Conversion, it doesn’t matter what the long call callout time is.

Has the united MEC responded yet?

Nope........

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

You’re thinking of it wrong, UAL will have no problem filling classes. All the regional guys and/or LCC’s still want to come over because current UAL contract is better than what they have now.

Anywho. I hope y’all get a killer deal as well, as well as AA. It’s time we as pilots took back some of what they took away in the early 2000’s

Retention matters too otherwise you’re just wasting cost of training.

It definitely helped, but it was going down before that on the merits, with the help of the MEC no voters and the debate on social media.

Just as DALPA did in the last round of pattern bargaining. Airline managements miscalculated in both cases. They picked what they thought was the weakest pilot group at the time to lead each round and in both cases the line pilots stood up and stood strong.

The “me too” kinda screws everyone. Why would UA management want to come in above this if they know DL will snap back up to 1% above? UA now CAN’T beat DL on pay, so they won’t try. It ensures DL will be the best paid by 1%, but puts a ceiling on pay across the industry. It’s a back door way to keep airlines from competing on pay without actually entering into an illegal collusive agreement. I have to think the “me too” was a request from DL management, not DALPA.

Guess they’ll just have to adjust quality of life and other items to be “industry leading” because we now obviously can’t be the highest paid. 20% contributions and 35% reductions in premiums anyone? Full retro?

All the more reason to fix all the deficiencies in the rest of our contract.

For us (DAL) you can only do short call a max of 6 or 7 times a month, and that gets prorated down for CQ, vacation, etc. Current rules is it's hard to get past 2 SC unless everyone that could cover the slot they want your SC in has had 2 already.

There is no airport standy in our contract, just be "propmptly available" which isn't defined anywhere but basically be able to report in 2 to 3 hours is considered OK, but with a "no air commute". In NYC that is determined by whatever airport is the closest to you (EWR, LGA, JFK) and if you are 2 hours from EWR and they call you to JFK at rush hour, you get there when you get there. LA which is our other multiple aiport base, they define it to LAX. (Probably because my ass would totally sit short call in San Diego using SNA as the "I can get here in 2 hours" point)

18 Hour LCR is nice. It opens up two more bases, maybe three to me that I can bid and sit long call at home. NYC has a witching hour where I live (ORF) where I can't make a 12 hour call out for 2-5 hours a night with the required backup, so I am in a "get on the AA RJ to JFK or drive" situation once or twice a year.
For me, it would be nice that I'm not getting assigned a 0500 report at 1630 the day before just as the last flight on us to JFK leaves, they'd have to assign it by 11am the day before.

Of course, the devil will be in the details (contractual language)

There is a grumbling/rumor that the UNA guys (I was one) will be frozen out of retro for the time they were aircraftless. That's a hard NO vote from me if the language states as such. It will also be interesting how they treat mil leave and retro.

There’s a limit of 2 snap ups in the DL AIP, so it’s not unlimited. Someone can absolutely leapfrog them over the course of 4 years. Would need to see a pay band chart with their new rates, though, to see how realistic that is. It’s higher in some categories than others.

That is a lot of speculation. Traditionally, retro/PS etc is paid on "Delta Earnings"....ie they haven't carved out for any specific leaves or aircraft status. If you got pay from Ma Delta, then there should be a retro adjustment to it. They literally look at your W2 and multiply it by a percentage. Unknown if Retro will be pensionable like PS is though.

Point is, it will be really hard for the company to claim “industry leading” now that Delta has a UAL snap up. Unless they exceed Delta’s pay beyond the snap-up limitations, or blow them out of the water in work rules, we are now officially “industry following”.

On the plus side a bar has been reset and UAL and AA now have something to pattern bargain with which raises the bar for Delta going forward. Really hope you guys and AA step up and raise it further.

18 hour call out would be nice. I have a similar commute as you do currently (ORF)..