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-   -   Delta TA Info (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/141194-delta-ta-info.html)

JamesBond 01-18-2023 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by SquawkIdent (Post 3573115)
Just looking at the early reactions over in the Delta subforum. It's interesting that so far there are no complaints about retro pay, a subject that sucked up a lot of oxygen before the TA was released.

If I'm reading the language right it's:

4% for 2020, 4% for 2021, 14% for 2022, and 18% for January 1 to March 1, 2023
payable to retirees or deceased pilots' estates
entire 2023 retro payment is eligible for profit sharing
not eligible for 401k contribution except for the portion that's paid for January to March 2023

The first three are not what I or many others consider real 'retro'. They do not compound into subsequent raises, nor are they pensionable. They are 'bonuses' for lack of a better word on 2019 rates. The first retro pay increase is the 18% this year and subsequent. On the 4,4,14, the company is getting a pass for dragging their feet on this contract.

m3113n1a1 01-18-2023 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by mossimo (Post 3574242)
First, be sure to sit on your hand until its numb. Ask Dave Chappelle why

The stranger!

tennisguru 01-20-2023 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 3574274)
The first three are not what I or many others consider real 'retro'. They do not compound into subsequent raises, nor are they pensionable. They are 'bonuses' for lack of a better word on 2019 rates. The first retro pay increase is the 18% this year and subsequent. On the 4,4,14, the company is getting a pass for dragging their feet on this contract.

One note about the “one time payment” covering 2020-2022 - that payment will count as 2023 earnings towards the profit sharing payout in Feb 2024. So eventually we’ll get another 8-12% (rough guess) of that next year, plus 17% DC on the PS amount.

GoCats67 01-20-2023 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by SquawkIdent (Post 3573115)
Just looking at the early reactions over in the Delta subforum. It's interesting that so far there are no complaints about retro pay, a subject that sucked up a lot of oxygen before the TA was released.

If I'm reading the language right it's:

4% for 2020, 4% for 2021, 14% for 2022, and 18% for January 1 to March 1, 2023
payable to retirees or deceased pilots' estates
entire 2023 retro payment is eligible for profit sharing
not eligible for 401k contribution except for the portion that's paid for January to March 2023


So it is really like you got :
  • 4% pay raise in Jan 2020
  • an additional 0% pay raise in Jan 2021
  • an additional 9.6% pay raise in Jan 2022 (compounding makes a total of 14%)
  • an additional 3.5% pay raise in Jan 2023 (compounding makes a total of 18%)

Giordano Bruno 01-21-2023 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3575720)
So it is really like you got :
  • 4% pay raise in Jan 2020
  • an additional 0% pay raise in Jan 2021
  • an additional 9.6% pay raise in Jan 2022 (compounding makes a total of 14%)
  • an additional 3.5% pay raise in Jan 2023 (compounding makes a total of 18%)

Yes on the first three bullets, no on the third.

the pay raise effective 1/1/23 (if it passes) is an 18% increase from the last contractual hourly rate bump on 1/1/19. Close to half will get more than that due to establishing pay banding, it looks like.

flightlessbirds 01-21-2023 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by GoCats67 (Post 3575720)
So it is really like you got :
  • 4% pay raise in Jan 2020
  • an additional 0% pay raise in Jan 2021
  • an additional 9.6% pay raise in Jan 2022 (compounding makes a total of 14%)
  • an additional 3.5% pay raise in Jan 2023 (compounding makes a total of 18%)

you said what I’ve been thinking for weeks. Which makes sense to me based on the macro-trends of the last few years.

DWC CAP10 USAF 01-21-2023 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by Giordano Bruno (Post 3576345)
Yes on the first three bullets, no on the third.

the pay raise effective 1/1/23 (if it passes) is an 18% increase from the last contractual hourly rate bump on 1/1/19. Close to half will get more than that due to establishing pay banding, it looks like.

DL guy here…correct.

DALPA is saying 48% of the seniority list is getting > 18% (25% IIRC) because of the 765/330 banding up to 350, 319/320 banding up to 737-800, and 220 banding up to previous 320 rate.

Gone Flying 01-22-2023 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty N Two (Post 3573183)
Their “Me too” says one time if I read that right. So we should also expect a Me too. They leap frog us once and we do it right back, am I reading that wrong? I like that it’s 1 percent too, not $1. I don’t like that their 73 700/800 is a lower pay rate than the 900. 700 and 319 need to stay alone and all other 73/320 need to be in the higher rate.

Our contract was set up a little different. When we had our JCBA our 737/738 was paid at a higher rate than our 320/319. As I understand it your 319/737 rate was based off our 319/320 rate and your 320/738 rate was based on our 737 7/8 rate. When we brought the 739 on property we negotiated a (slightly) higher pay rate for it in between the existing 737NG rate and our 757/767 rate. That rate then applied to the A321CEO. We were able to get 757/767 pay for the 321NEO. This contract would bring up 319/320 to the 738 pay rate.

TL;DR our 739 pays more, not necessarily our 738 paying less if that makes sense.

Sixty N Two 01-23-2023 03:57 AM


Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3577182)
Our contract was set up a little different. When we had our JCBA our 737/738 was paid at a higher rate than our 320/319. As I understand it your 319/737 rate was based off our 319/320 rate and your 320/738 rate was based on our 737 7/8 rate. When we brought the 739 on property we negotiated a (slightly) higher pay rate for it in between the existing 737NG rate and our 757/767 rate. That rate then applied to the A321CEO. We were able to get 757/767 pay for the 321NEO. This contract would bring up 319/320 to the 738 pay rate.

TL;DR our 739 pays more, not necessarily our 738 paying less if that makes sense.

Ok, little differences. Got it. United pay is based off a slightly lower rate same for 737 (700) and 319. And a slightly higher rate same for 737 (800/900) and 320. If that clears anything up

Gone Flying 01-23-2023 03:16 PM


Originally Posted by V22Plopter (Post 3572764)
If SK having A350s on the book to prevent delta from getting them, would same aggression and logic work to pay UAL Pilot Group so much that it unbalances the DAL “Me 2” clause and company dynamics?

If SK wanted to raise DLs cost, he could raise your 777-300ER rate higher than the rest of your fleet. Possibly even to match your 747-400 rate vs your 777 rate from C2K, as that would trigger us (DL) to have a higher rate than you for every other aircraft.

If he wanted to compete for pilots he could raise your DC higher or add in a qualifier that one month after DOS you get a me too off our newly adjusted rates from your DOS raise.


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