23-08V
 

DCA 777 CA 12
IAH 777 CA 7
SFO 777 CA 6
DCA 756 CA 5
IAH 756 CA 7
ORD 756 CA 8
GUM 737 CA 4
CLE 737 CA 5
DCA 737 CA 5
DEN 737 CA 10
EWR 737 CA 10
IAH 737 CA 10
LAX 737 CA 5
MCO 737 CA 15
ORD 737 CA 10
SFO 737 CA 5
DEN 320 CA 5
IAH 320 CA 5

DEN 787 FO 10
EWR 787 FO 12
LAX 787 FO 8
SFO 787 FO 9
DCA 756 FO 17
DEN 756 FO 4
IAH 756 FO 10
LAX 756 FO 8
SFO 756 FO 20
GUM 737 FO 4
CLE 737 FO 10
DEN 737 FO 10
EWR 737 FO 40
IAH 737 FO 100
MCO 737 FO 15
ORD 737 FO 5
SFO 737 FO 5
DEN 320 FO 35
EWR 320 FO 30
IAH 320 FO 20

Still no contract!

I can't see it in FT

Opens at noon. Info came out of a Crew Resources Update, but I am sure they are updating FT as we speak.

Be interesting to see if there truly aren't ANY 777 FO positions available systemwide(other than backfills)

it’ll be interesting to see if these senior bubbas skip bidding the WB CA seats……because you know….we need to pressure the company by not bidding CA slots. Also, because reserve is a travesty and all that…..

It’s been very clearly said in multiple ALPA comms that we are to let ALPA do the negotiating and not engage in any actions that could constitute individual or group actions. So if someone has been waiting for the right WB CA opportunity for 25 years and this is it, hopefully they take it, and it doesn’t make them as you say a “Ho.” Signed, a couple decades away from that WB upgrade.

To make sure I understand the vernacular, A 'Ho would be a pilot that bids a WB captain seat? Are you for realz? Let me guess, you are quietly ensconced in you dream position?

Using that logic, all pilots should down bid to put put max pressure equally and nobody be no 'ho.

The vernacular is that people can't help themselves. My dream position is to sit on a beach and collect checks. That was notably missing from this vacancy.

I'm currently waiting on a class date for this summer, and want to get to DEN ASAP.

Am I reading this correctly, in that even though the A320 fleet in DEN is smaller than the 737, it seems there are many more openings via the Airbus? Does that have an effect on how soon you can get there from your initial New Hire base?

Trying to figure out what jet to bid if my only priority is to get to DEN earliest.

For the moment the bus looks better but you’ll get there quickly either way. If a few months absolutely matter to you I would advise that they really don’t. Focus on the long game.

Purely by the numbers, the vacancy shows they are looking to put more folks in DEN 320 on this bid than in DEN 737. The 737 base in DEN is about 1.5 times the size of the 320 base, so this bid represents pretty good movement for the DEN 320 base and a little smaller movement on the 737 side. Overall the 737 fleet is much larger than the 320 fleet, so I imagine you will continue to see incredible movement on the 737 side. New maxes are coming at about 2 per week and the 321s don't start showing up till next year, so while movement on both fleets in the FO seat will remain incredible because of growth and retirements, the 737 also has the advantage that more and more 737s are coming so they will need more 737 FOs in general than they will need 320 FOs in the next year. With that being said, they are going to need a ton in both fleets, so starting in DEN might happen and if it doesn't, getting there quickly will not be a problem on either fleet.

On the last vacancy bid DEN 320 FO (and DEN 737 FO) slots went very junior but all of them were filled. I would guess that we will have unfilled slots in DEN320FO on this bid, so that could mean that those slots would be available for new hires as initial bids. The company has 3 months (ish) to use any unfilled FO assignment for new hire classes. They don't have to offer them if they have more pressing needs, but after the 3 months any unfilled assignment that hasn't been given to a new hire, goes away. For that reason we have these vacancy bids every 4-6 weeks at this point to keep the new hire assignment slots available. That frequency means that even if you don't get DEN in new hire, you will likely get a lateral there very quickly. It is always difficult to say which fleet will get you somewhere fastest as Manpower Planning is in charge of what is offered where and us lowly pilots don't really have any insight into what is coming next in the short term. Overall, everything is moving extremely rapidly right now, so in historical context you will get to DEN much faster than ever seemed possible pre-covid. With some luck, you could get DEN immediately as your first assignment. If you get a 737 or a 320 in new hire that is not DEN, I would imagine you would get a lateral to DEN on the 1st or 2nd vacancy bid after you start.

The first "snapshot" for this vacancy will happen next week and that will start to give us an idea of how many (if any) of the DEN 320,737, or 756 slots go unfilled. If some end up going unfilled, then it will depend on where Manpower Planning really needs folks first and what your age is relative to others in your class on whether or not you can get DEN immediately or if you are going to have to wait for a vacancy bid to open after you start.

Historically the answer is the 737. Future deliveries point to the 737. This snapshot still means that the 737 is going to be much, much larger base. 737 opens a lot more doors for you in DEN, plus another west coast commuting option (LAS) in the event you don't get DEN at Indoc or if somehow you can't get it on the first vacancy bid.

Those numbers are how many spots are open on THIS CURRENT VACANCY. There aren’t going to be 100 737 FOs bidding over to Houston, but there needs to be openings for new hires, too.

I’d wager that those 320 FO spots in Denver get filled (or close to it) by pilots currently on property.

If you want Denver, go 737.

Thanks everyone. This is great info. I had been thinking IAH would be a better commute option than what the 320 has been dropping lately. Especially for cost of hotels. I'm trying to maximize time with 2 elementary aged kids.

Excited to get started either way. Thanks all.

What’s your wife got to do with this? Talk about thread drift.

Apparently, you don’t know the expression... since it pertains to someone voluntarily bidding reserve and subsequently complaining about the situation they subjected themselves to, but good job being an internet anonymous tough guy.

Wow. You’re pretty thin-skinned (and hypocritical) for someone who calls a fellow pilot with decades of seniority bidding widebody CA a “ho”. But feel free to post your personal information so no one confuses you with being an “internet anonymous tough guy”.

Never called anyone a ho. Maybe search the internet and figure out what the phrase means. Either before or after your time I guess, 🤷‍♂️

By design fifteen to twenty five percent are on reserve. It's not escapable. If you're not going to be constructive or helpful take it somewhere else. Maybe find that beach sooner rather than later.

Nobody likes a coward, read post 6 in this thread where you infer anyone bidding a WB CA is a “Ho”. To try and claim that nobody understands internet culture is the ultimate weaksauce.

Go back to apologizing for the company. If you don't understand the reference, then I can't help you.

i think I know what you are getting at….but don’t imply that our reserve is good

never said it was. I voted to fix it back it 2015…..but it wasn’t bad enough then for those that wanted the money…..now the system is outrageous.

I just find the hypocrisy fascinating.

Almost half or more of our seniority list was hired after the last CBA vote. The majority of which came from different airlines that have drastically better reserve rules. It's not hypocrisy, it's a different generation of pilots that actually want QOL and not only hard dollars per hour.

You could try to explain why you called pilots that chose to exercise their seniority *****s, but instead it’s deny, divert, deflect - what a loser.

I expect both, why don’t you?

Cry harder.

I also expect both. My response was to the original comment saying they didn't understand why people were just now complaining about QOL, which again is because we have a much younger group of pilots now that, about half the seniority list, hired since the contract extension was signed that actually value QOL and won't just vote in a contract because it matches delta pay rates.

Back to the vacancy. I may be wrong, but isn’t the most junior pilot based in Denver on the 320? that, along with the additional vacancies for Airbus Den, Why wouldn’t 320 be the fastest path to Denver? I understand that seniority progression would be quicker on the 737.

Because Denver base growth and the choices of pilots moving in and out are idiosyncratic. This is not “how long does it take to take a 16 foot deep hole if you dig 2 feet a day.” The larger (and growing) fleet is more likely to have steady availability. But realistically, that probably means or two or three month difference at most.

Thanks. I guess there’s more factors at work than I know about. As someone who hasn’t started indoc yet it just seemed logical that with the most junior seniority number in Denver being on the Airbus, that would be the quicker path to Denver. I guess past results don’t guarantee future returns.

Nobody knows for sure. But the DEN73FO has ~290 spots, DEN320FO has ~220. There is 70 more 73FO's who could switch bases or seats to give you a spot in Denver. There are more 73 orders on the books, and they're being delivered every 2-3 days while the 320's are getting pushed further and further back. The better bet is the 73. Even if you chose wrong, you're looking at maybe a 2-3 month difference? That isn't ideal but it's not exactly catastrophic.

It’s more that what you’re seeing really isn’t a result.

One month the company may offer 320 slots but not 737, so the 320 goes “junior”.

Movement at the very bottom really just isn’t predictable month to month. That’s mostly a good thing because it’s FAST.

On top of that, once the NEOs arrive expect the east coast bus bases to grow first vs DEN..

Any movement in LAX? 737/320?

I start class next month as well with the goal of DEN. I would imagine the 737 is the path to faster seniority progression because of deliveries (growth). However, as a younger dude, and looking at the recent drops, it seems that 320 SFO/EWR might be what I get if I can avoid the 777.

Two thoughts:

1. Looking at the pairings 737 vs. 320, it seems like the 320 has more legs per day (which I don’t mind) but more importantly almost 0 redeyes. The 737 seems like it has more redeyes especially on the west coast, and to some extent DEN. So on that metric the 320 really appeals to me, however;

2. Due to no immediate deliveries, the 320 category seems stagnant and as 321 NEO deliveries arrive I imagine the flying will improve and more senior pilots will bid in, further increasing stagnation for middle seniority pilots.

Can someone share that website where you can see the pairings? I saw it a few months ago and can’t seem to find it anymore.

CCS-Bidding-Bid packages

I think you’re referring to maxgumby.com. I’ve always been curious why that site exists. Never used it.

Guys that have CJO's can look at the pairings for different BES so they have some idea of what they might be getting into for their initial class bid. Especially since they can't look at CCS. Got a pretty good sort feature too to see destinations. Doesn't work for me with Google Chrome but works fine with Firefox and Edge.