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Brickfire 05-24-2023 04:40 AM

The reason these things take so long is no single metric matters

The NC could easily get 1-2 shiny bullet points selling out the 87 little items. They’re pushing for total value.

threeighteen 05-27-2023 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by ERAUAV8TR (Post 3640645)
We must beat these percentages!

our 5 percent was previously negotiated and should not be factored in. Period

Delta would still get the snap up so it's kind of moot. Focus on QOL and work rules, DL is beating us all in that department by several miles

hummingbear 05-27-2023 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3642508)
Delta would still get the snap up so it's kind of moot. Focus on QOL and work rules, DL is beating us all in that department by several miles

Why is that a bad thing? I want the 5%- whether they get it too has nothing to do with me, as far as I’m concerned. If anything, their me too makes it easier for us to keep our 5% as it ensures UAL that exceeding DAL rates will not result in a comparative disadvantage on labor cost.

threeighteen 05-29-2023 05:34 AM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3642528)
Why is that a bad thing? I want the 5%- whether they get it too has nothing to do with me, as far as I’m concerned. If anything, their me too makes it easier for us to keep our 5% as it ensures UAL that exceeding DAL rates will not result in a comparative disadvantage on labor cost.

It's not a bad thing, but it just means that 5% is rather meaningless. What isn't meaningless is fixing the weak areas of your contract like DL did with theirs.

hummingbear 05-29-2023 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3643193)
It's not a bad thing, but it just means that 5% is rather meaningless. What isn't meaningless is fixing the weak areas of your contract like DL did with theirs.

It’s not meaningless at all unless your metric is being paid more than Delta. The way I see it, our contract should make us at least even with inflation, & our pandemic LOA entitles us to an additional 5%. So anything less than inflation +5% on DOS would be an automatic no for me. The fact that DAL’s snap up will get them a raise as a result is the part that’s meaningless to me. I care that I get what I was promised- not that someone else doesn’t get it too.

threeighteen 05-29-2023 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3643262)
It’s not meaningless at all unless your metric is being paid more than Delta. The way I see it, our contract should make us at least even with inflation, & our pandemic LOA entitles us to an additional 5%. So anything less than inflation +5% on DOS would be an automatic no for me. The fact that DAL’s snap up will get them a raise as a result is the part that’s meaningless to me. I care that I get what I was promised- not that someone else doesn’t get it too.

But if you focus on that 5% carrot instead of work rules/qol, DL will have the better contract in the end, despite the fact that you negotiated for the extra 5% during covid while they didn't. Focusing on that silly 5% is myopic. Focusing on getting better work rules/qol than DL is not.

KnightNight 05-29-2023 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3643193)
It's not a bad thing, but it just means that 5% is rather meaningless. What isn't meaningless is fixing the weak areas of your contract like DL did with theirs.

If we have to match rates, let’s quantify what they 5% is financially to the company and then insist it get transferred to quality of life.

hummingbear 05-29-2023 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3643345)
But if you focus on that 5% carrot instead of work rules/qol, DL will have the better contract in the end, despite the fact that you negotiated for the extra 5% during covid while they didn't. Focusing on that silly 5% is myopic. Focusing on getting better work rules/qol than DL is not.

Who said anything about instead of work rules? We were promised an industry leading contract. We need big improvements in pay & QOL.

GPullR 05-30-2023 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3642508)
Delta would still get the snap up so it's kind of moot. Focus on QOL and work rules, DL is beating us all in that department by several miles

then we put a snap up in there to go 1% above them. Simple. They only get one snap up.

CQKSNT 05-30-2023 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3643262)
It’s not meaningless at all unless your metric is being paid more than Delta. The way I see it, our contract should make us at least even with inflation, & our pandemic LOA entitles us to an additional 5%. So anything less than inflation +5% on DOS would be an automatic no for me. The fact that DAL’s snap up will get them a raise as a result is the part that’s meaningless to me. I care that I get what I was promised- not that someone else doesn’t get it too.

This 👆. The fact that anyone could argue against this point is astounding to me.


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