Here is what I find interesting…whenever this new contract comes to fruition and the widebody FOs are making an additional 20%, or whatever the number is, why would they upgrade to NB CA? On the new contract a widebody FO will make more than what a NB CA is making on the current contract. So, what
would be the incentive to upgrade at that point?

That’s way too simplistic; seniority in this industry is not purely about DOH. For example, one way to stumble into better seniority would have been to “luck out” and be hired by CAL back in the day. There are thousands here who were not hired by CAL and have similar stats to yours.

I am LUAL. LCAL pilots jumped me, of course.
Definitely still bitter about that.

So you think that by allowing everyone 2-3 days of their choice off a month would create a world where a Sr bidder would only get one weekend off?

The math wouldn't work that way. It doesn't work that way at any other airline. Why do you think we have to settle for that here?

Would Sr bidders have to work a weekend once in a while? Probably. But you really think it's fair that between the ages of 30-50 you have to choose between "stay an FO and spend time with family" or "take the money and run"? The part that's broken at United (more than any other legacy carrier) is that our seniority system is way more heavily weighted to the SUPER senior.

Why is it that you have to be basically 50% seniority to have all weekends off? It's not that way at any other carrier in the world. Ask around. I have friends that are Jr lineholders at SWA, DL, AA, Spirit, JB, etc. I don't know one of them that doesn't have the ability to have at least 1 weekend off a month. Why do we accept that here. This is probably why UAL management is so hesitant to give us a better STD or sick leave accrual. We've de-facto turned our sick leave into the only times when Jr people can get time off to spend with their families. That's a broken system and pretty much one of the "main things" we are fighting for in this contract negotiation.

Fix this one thing and UAL will start firing on all cylinders. We need a progressive seniority system, not the "All or nothing" system we have now.

The reason I suggest the GDO system is we already have that system in place at United. We could implement it literally tomorrow. Or within a few months at least.
This have high confidence this would work. I've worked with PBS here in the past, and while it hasn't been tested, I have full confidence it would work.

If PBS can't make it work with the current staffing (which I'm confident it would since every other carrier has the ability for JR pilots to have better schedules) then the company would have to fix the shortfall with overtime or hire more.

When did we get to the point where half of the pilots at United have to work all weekends and all holidays throughout half their career, or take less $$?

This isn't a big ask. We've just been beat down so long, we don't know what other pilots have.

Yes, exactly.

Give us all 2 GDOs a month, awarded in seniority order.

You put in multiple bids for your GDOs each month. Or if you forget, you forfeit them. It's literally a no-cost item that could seriously improve the QOL of over half the seniority list.

Yes, it would mean that if you are in the 20-50% seniority range, you probably have to work 1 or 2 weekends a month(in a 5 weekend month), but you are probably still getting every holiday off.

Or better yet you bid a BES where you can get the time off you want. Or chase the $$$ and get the schedule you get. It’s always fun watching the junior people complain about seniority until they’re senior….

This is the BS attitude I'm talking about.

I'm middle of the road. I'm about 50-60% CA in any NB category. I'm about 50% overall here at UAL. If you think that should be considered JR, you are part of the problem.

So, probably within a year, I can probably hold NB CA at 50% in any base, and get all my weekends off, and probably a good bit of the holidays.

There is no progression here at United from 80% to 50%. Our contract basically gives carte blanche ability to the top tier without any meaningful progression throughout the seniority list in base

From this seniority range, basically the only progression you will likely see on the NB is getting more favorable layovers. So you might get an increase in QOWL, but not QOL.
Pilots here are screaming for the ability to have more control over when they are home for at least a few days a month. Right now, most people in the 50-80% seniority have little to no control over any days off they will work. Pretty much you will be working Fri-Mon almost every week. Maybe get lucky and get a Thur-Sun or perhaps a Sat-Tue here and there...

Newsflash, you don't have to be this senior at other airlines to get 1 weekend off a month without banging in sick.

At United, you need to spend 10 hrs a month working the crew companion trip trading system to make it work, or you have to be in the top half of the list.

There is a better way, you've just been beat down so long, you don't realize there are better ways, and cost effective ways to make situations win-win.

I'm telling you, we are just eating our own here. I don't want to be the guy that pulls up the ladder. I've lived thru the seniority where it's the most stagnant. It sucks.
Do you want the best pilots to come to UAL or just the ones that are local to DEN and CA?

Tell me again, is 1 weekend off a month too much to ask for a Jr pilot anywhere? Personally, I don't think it is.

the issue is that it’s all or nothing with the current system. 2 GDO a month would balance things out more.

and yes, it will will ultimately shift “wealth” from the senior to the junior. But I don’t think it is a crazy idea.

Aren't you hiding out at TK?

That all sounds great, but it’s just hypothetical at this point, unless 51% think that better lines are important. All of the negotiating items are done and there is little that pertains to lineholder trip construction, trading, etc.