220 WB (53-767/96-777/71-787) today. At least 5 more 787 next year.

Dude, you’re putting way to much thought into it. Drive to work, choice over… If you’re worried about DEI and inclusiveness you’re doing it wrong. Progressive-Ness? Come on, man. It’s all the same. Wear a dress, do what you want, they all accept it.

So, you live in base at Delta but want to bail and start over at UA because of company culture? Wow. Ok, just know that DL is a MUCH better run airline, with a better contract (than we will get according to C33’s update and other legitimate rumors). You might be unpleasantly surprised how similar our cockpit culture is to theirs once you start over here.

19000 pilots for 1100 total aircraft

some will be parked of those 767-3 , 777 A and B models ( my guess at least 50 of them by 2028)

and NBs will be add on for a total of 1100 frames (320s and 737-7 and some 737-8s will be parked as well)

Reserve in base is great QoL, especially during the winter months. You just don't get used much by picking up SC's. On top of that DEN is poised to be UAL's fortress hub similar to ATL, and obviously there's tons of instructor/evaluator jobs at DENTK.

If hired in 1-2 yrs. with 20 yrs. or 22 yrs. left with age 67. What kind of seniority would one be looking at with United? Where would they retire, what number on the seniority list? I'm sure upgrade on a narrowbody is a reality, right? Would they be able to fly widebodies as an F/O? Could they hold widebody captain? Asking for a friend that doesn't post here and he's trying to decide between DL and UA. Thanks in advance.

The old axiom of my generation was that you’d never know you made the right choice until the day you retired. There are so many unknowable variables in a 20 year outlook that it’s practically a crap shoot, so if there are any relevant personal considerations (you live in MSP, for example) it usually makes sense to lean heavily on those.

Having said that, today's new hire will be around 37% seniority in 20 years, considering retirements & no growth. That’s enough to hold a great line as a NBCA or WBFO, & just below being able to hold WBCA at all.

Delta has 74% market share in ATL with zero notable competitors and United has 36% in DEN with Southwest right behind. They're not comparable.

Won’t likely be a WB CA with only 20 years left… if so, the plug in EWR or SFO. Maybe better at 22 years… this depends on how many future WBs UAL gets. More = better chances. They could be a WB FO or NB CA easily.

Take the first class date then move to the one where they live in base.

live in base !!!!

nothing else matters in my opinion

no, he has a good point. Some people tolerate commuting better than others. I’m DAL and commute now but considering moving to Colorado and continuing to commute. Choice is individual. You don’t get to tell someone else their life isn’t right because they don’t see it the same way you do.

Guess we gotta shut the forums down now.

Living somewhere we find enjoyable is more important for many, to each their own.

Not sure if you could get Denver in one or two vacancies but definitely within a year. 320 FO is more junior to 737 FO right now. Current vacancy didn't have any Denver 320 or 737 FO openings. I'm guessing they will have more of those in vacancies this fall and winter but that is just a guess.

Anecdotal example, I'm a late-February '23 hire. Initially 737 to IAH and was awarded DEN in the last Vacancy. Was hoping to activate for the month of Aug but looking more like Sept so about 6 months on the dot (provided the activation doesn't get delayed).

They may never post Denver vacancies but that doesn't mean they aren't available.

NB FO's in Denver upgrade or move bases or switch fleets on a vacancy, their slots become available.

The backfill game is STRONG at UA 👍🏻

Case in point, today's Snapshot has 7 x DEN 737 FO Awards.

Yup, 756 ORD hasn’t been on a vacancy in three years but more than half the list has changed through backfill 🫠

Thanks to everyone for the information. I'll be submitting an application soon and hopefully joining your ranks within the next couple months. For my own curiosity, does anyone know where on the seniority list a 29 and/or a young 30 year old would be retiring at if they were hired today? I can't find any metrics online that don't require a UA employee number. Top 500? 1,000? Sub 2,000?

if hired right now around 1500, please someone correct me if wrong.

I got it in the big Dec vacancy last year.

Deleted misunderstood question.

I know this has been done to death but could you look up where a 39 year old joining next year would end up? Thanks

after a furlough and merger, hard to speculate

A retirement date of 2050 would set you around 3000.

which isn’t bad if list grows even half as projected imo

Thanks for that…and while I realize there are many variables that can and no doubt will happen between now and 2050 but what would that allow someone to hold? WBCA?

3000 is middle of the pack for current WBCA

The thing I would say is that at current hiring rates "next year" really isn't a useful metric. 2500 hires potentially between Jan24 and Dec 24.

Yes. Junior WB CA tends to be around 4800-5100 on the list. I think on the current vacancy which closed like an hour ago had a snapshot of 777 CA going to a 51XX number in SFO.

The vacancy bid's open until tomorrow. CCS message:
Due to the monthly base trade bid being awarded on Tuesday, July 18, we will be extending the closure date of the 23-11V Vacancy Bid to 9:00 a.m. CT on Wednesday, July 19.

New timeline:

Tuesday, July 18:
- September base trade results will be posted on Flying Together by 9:00 a.m. CT
- Final 23-11V Snapshot will be posted on Flying Together

Wednesday, July 19:
- 23-11V closes at 9:00 a.m. CT
- Vacancy results will be posted on Flying Together by end of business day

Hi all,

I have read through this thread and some others like it. I realize this is old but figured better than starting a new one.

Here is my situation:

I have a class date at Delta and an upcoming interview at United. IF, I get the CJO at United, I will have a decision to make.

I am 46. I think the "commute" is the biggest factor, but maybe it's short-sighted because by commute, I am driving either way with a caveat. I am an EASY 20 minutes from EWR (and almost never any traffic) and 1 hour with no traffic to JFK. More like 1.5-2 hourswith traffic and can really suck.

The second biggest factor I see is seniority progression. Retirements at UA seem to be more favorable as do their growth plans. Plus, I would be starting at UA approximately 3-4 months later than my DL class date. (600-800 people in front of me). Would the retirements offset the seniority I'd be giving up at UA?

While DL appears to have better reserve rules, that won't affect me as much living 20 minutes away.

I don't really care about equipment or long haul flying but am on the airbus and love it. Actually, I don't really like the idea of long haul. I don't want to be half way across the world if my kid gets in a car accident or something crazy happens at home.

If the drive didn't matter, I would go to Delta in a heartbeat, so maybe I know the answer. Do I just suck it up and take the longer drive? I can't help but wonder (as I drive by EWR every time on my way to JFK) how much I will be kicking myself in 5/10/15 years from now. Is my earnings potential that much better at DL?

And I realize this is a nice problem to have. And first thing's first - get the CJO at UA.

Thanks for any advice!

Definitely first world problems as either option is going to be very good, congratulations!

EWR is historically very junior at UA and I am sure that JFK is at DL, so don't know that there is much difference there.

Every fleet we have is based at EWR on the UA side, so you would have everything available throughout your career.

On the Airbus side of things EWR will go through prob the most changes in the next several years. We are taking delivery of A321NEOs now and will suppossedly take delivery of 321XLRs starting late next year or early 2025, but since Airbus is way behind on the certifiction of the XLR, I think that will more likely be well into 2025 before the XLR actually arrives at UA. When it does it will replace the 757-200s and be a Europe small market airplane. So, at that point the Airbus fleet will have a very wide variety of flying. Some of the A320s we have are coming up on their 30th birthday, so as NEOs come in and Maxs come in, some of the older 320s will start going away. With that in mind the Airbus fleet will still be growing overall, but not as fast as the 737 fleet over the next several years (the oldest current 737 is about 25 years old, so prob won't see any retirements off that fleet for several years)

Living local makes all the difference in the world as far as bidding and QOL go. Reserve as a local guy is not a big deal and can be quite lucrative at times, especially in the dollars/day away calculation. Additionally, when NY center has a cloud in the sky things can get pretty messed up. As a local guy that can translate into serious extra money as Premium trips with short notice come available and those that commute can't take them.

Overall at UA, retirements are accelerating and we are still doing a huge amount of replacing RJs with mainline flying and growing in other areas as well, so that is resulting in the crazy movement you see right now. At your age you would likely be in control of what airplane you got in your new hire class, so even if there wasn't a EWR slot available (unlikely) you would get whatever plane you wanted of the available group and get to EWR extremely quickly! If you wanted to go straight to Captain, you could definitely do that (assuming you have 121 time) and then in EWR you would prob get to be a line holder well ahead of most other bases. Still be on reserve for awhile I would imagine, but with as many airplanes as we have coming, I think the movement at EWR (and SFO) is pretty amazing. For instance, I just checked out brand new new hire that got SFO 756 FO as their original assignment and when they finished OE they were on reserve for the remainder of the month and had a line the next month!!

Again, don't think you can go wrong either way. 19 years of less driving headache would prob make me go the UA route.

Something to note about the 320 in Newark is that about 40% of their trips are LGA. The only other fleet with LGA trips is 737, and there’s a pittance on that fleet. The highest I saw was 4%, the lowest I saw was 1 single trip for the month.

Its far less than 40%. 20-25% range, sometimes a bit less

Wow. This is all great info. Is LGA a co-base? Didn’t even consider that I would have to drive to LGA but that’s about an hour too depending on traffic.
Also, I do recall talking to guys while jumpseating that the trips are much better on the 73 than 320.

Anyways really appreciate it. And yeah, first world problems indeed. It’s not lost on me how lucky people have it these days. When watching from the outside as 9/11 and the financial crisis hit. Those who made it through are seeing some long overdue returns right now!

Yes LGA is a co-base, but with just 20-25% of the 320 flying done there vs EWR and less than 10% on the 73, its easy to bid avoid. I should also add that if you get a call out on SC reserve, the 2.5 hrs is based on reporting to EWR, not LGA.

Additionally, you get princess parking in the short term lot at LGA and just expense it. Literally just a 10 min walk from the gate.

As for 73 vs 320 trips, there is not as much difference as some make it out to be. I saw I stat that the average is 1.8 legs a day on the 73 vs 2.1 avg on the 320. A very senior pilot is better off on the 73 though, since they do some very juicy turns crediting 8 hrs to the islands that the bus does not do.

IMO the 320 is a far superior and much more comfortable airplane though all n all.

Hope this helps.

I'm assuming your at b6 but not quite sure why you'd be leaving that right now ?

A 20 minute commute is a hands down winner compared to 1hr+. I know several dudes who turned a "better" legacy down for one closer because they had a 30 min drive to, it's very a valid reason. I'd say take the DAL class date and then see how you're feeling when your class date for United comes around.

The legacies are 80% similar living in base, a lot of the QOL rules don't really affect your regular routine. DAL does have the better reserve rules and better ability to make money on reserve so if for some reason you don't get the UAL CJO you'll still be able to play the reserve game and do well. I have buddies at DAL who chill on reserve living in Philly.

I have a buddy who has been at UAL almost a year and bids a line in EWR on the 737. He's able to get 90-100% of what he wants regarding Days off, trips, no read eyes etc. There's a lot of merit to living in a junior base at a company.

Great problem to have. You win either way.

I'll just add that as we get more NEO's, the lieklyhood of them flying some of the Carribean turns increases. An extra 21 seats (comared to a Max9) for sale to take advantage of in some markets.