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Ice Bear 07-11-2023 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by JackReacher (Post 3663595)
Wait, no black around the cockpit windows??

What's the deal with that, anyway? Glare reduction like an athlete's eye black? One article talked about temperature equalization and laminar airflow over the window? Wouldn't every aircraft have it if it were helpful?

ATISInformation 07-11-2023 10:35 AM

Anyone hear a rumor about the bus going to MCO and/or LAS?

DarkSideMoon 07-11-2023 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by ATISInformation (Post 3664225)
Anyone hear a rumor about the bus going to MCO and/or LAS?

Not super likely imo. Maybe TPA if they open the codomicile. There’s like 1 bus for every 3 737’s and large chunk of the 321 and neos are
replacement aircraft for some very old 320’s. The odds aren’t great for an outstation base but there’s always a chance they could shift flying around and concentrate Airbus flying in one of those bases.

ThumbsUp 07-11-2023 10:42 AM


Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon (Post 3664229)
Not super likely imo. Maybe TPA if they open the codomicile. There’s like 1 bus for every 3 737’s and large chunk of the 321 and neos are
replacement aircraft for some very old 320’s. The odds aren’t great for an outstation base but there’s always a chance they could shift flying around and concentrate Airbus flying in one of those bases.

That’s not going to happen. The fleet size is just too small. I’m amazed we have LAX 320 with how small it is there.

DarkSideMoon 07-11-2023 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3664230)
That’s not going to happen. The fleet size is just too small. I’m amazed we have LAX 320 with how small it is there.

I don’t think it’s likely but with the shrinking of the 320/319 fleet and subsequent move towards more transcons using the NEOs/XLRs and less RJ style flying using the 319’s/320’s I wouldn’t be surprised to see some shifting in flying allocation that could result in some closed/opened bases.

CLazarus 07-11-2023 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3664230)
That’s not going to happen. The fleet size is just too small. I’m amazed we have LAX 320 with how small it is there.

Once we get enough 321LRs on property I’d expect LAX and/or SFO 756 to close as they start to retire frames and consolidate 756 flying further east. So even though LAX 320 is pretty small now and some frames are retiring it will probably grow somewhat as it assumes the 757 transcon/HI role. So, anyone thinking of bidding west coast 320 would be wise to check out the LAX/SFO 756 bid packages. LAS or MCO Bus seems really unlikely to me until maybe the tail end of 321 deliveries, too much near future Bus flying is going to be just like current 756 flying.

fanaticalflyer 07-11-2023 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by CLazarus (Post 3664273)
Once we get enough 321LRs on property I’d expect LAX and/or SFO 756 to close as they start to retire frames and consolidate 756 flying further east. So even though LAX 320 is pretty small now and some frames are retiring it will probably grow somewhat as it assumes the 757 transcon/HI role. So, anyone thinking of bidding west coast 320 would be wise to check out the LAX/SFO 756 bid packages. LAS or MCO Bus seems really unlikely to me until maybe the tail end of 321 deliveries, too much near future Bus flying is going to be just like current 756 flying.

Not sure where you are getting your info from. First of all the 321LRs aren't getting here for a few more years (2028) and when they do, they will only be concentrated out of EWR first, then the other east coast bases like IAD then ORD to replace old 757s for transatlantic flights.
The NEOs are still being planned out, but those would be transcon/HI. Right now, LAX 757 does very little HI flying, so no impact there. The 757 will shift a lot more to hub to hub flying which has already begun. The 757 fleet will be here until 2030 minimum. Only the really old ones will go. LAX and SFO 757 bases are going nowhere for a long time.

DarkSideMoon 07-11-2023 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by fanaticalflyer (Post 3664279)
Not sure where you are getting your info from. First of all the 321LRs aren't getting here for a few more years (2028) and when they do, they will only be concentrated out of EWR first, then the other east coast bases like IAD then ORD to replace old 757s for transatlantic flights.
The NEOs are still being planned out, but those would be transcon/HI. Right now, LAX 757 does very little HI flying, so no impact there. The 757 will shift a lot more to hub to hub flying which has already begun. The 757 fleet will be here until 2030 minimum. Only the really old ones will go. LAX and SFO 757 bases are going nowhere for a long time.

I think that’s particularly optimistic. Kirby has stated the -200’s will get phased out in 2026 replaced by the max 10’s and neos. There are only 20 300’s. At some point the economics of an extra 20 seats don’t outweigh the cost of keeping a fleet that small around. The 76 can be swapped with a 78-8 for about the same operating cost, the 78 announcement hinted at retiring the 76 around 2030, which indicates what CLazarus said about moving the remaining flying east, and the XLRs can do some of the lower capacity long thin routes.

IMO, based on everything management and analysts are saying, I think barring some kind of catastrophic downturn again the 757-200’s will get phased out in 2026, the -300’s will be moved to where most of the 767 flying is (IAH, IAD, EWR) until the 76 phases out in 2030 or so. I don’t think a 20 aircraft fleet can support bases in SFO and LAX.

I really like the 756 fleet and im sad to see it go but I just don’t see a long term market for it when only the smallest niche isn’t filled by existing fleet types. Hopefully it’s an easy transition for the crews when the time comes without much of a QOL hit.

luv757 07-11-2023 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon (Post 3664296)
I think that’s particularly optimistic. Kirby has stated the -200’s will get phased out in 2026 replaced by the max 10’s and neos. There are only 20 300’s. At some point the economics of an extra 20 seats don’t outweigh the cost of keeping a fleet that small around. The 76 can be swapped with a 78-8 for about the same operating cost, the 78 announcement hinted at retiring the 76 around 2030, which indicates what CLazarus said about moving the remaining flying east, and the XLRs can do some of the lower capacity long thin routes.

IMO, based on everything management and analysts are saying, I think barring some kind of catastrophic downturn again the 757-200’s will get phased out in 2026, the -300’s will be moved to where most of the 767 flying is (IAH, IAD, EWR) until the 76 phases out in 2030 or so. I don’t think a 20 aircraft fleet can support bases in SFO and LAX.

I really like the 756 fleet and im sad to see it go but I just don’t see a long term market for it when only the smallest niche isn’t filled by existing fleet types. Hopefully it’s an easy transition for the crews when the time comes without much of a QOL hit.

Kirby also said 2 weeks to a contract so he doesn’t know jack. All kidding aside on that when SFO/LAX 756 go away if they are replaced by 321NEO flying at least we will still perform the exact same amount of 767 flying we currently enjoy. :D

CLazarus 07-11-2023 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by fanaticalflyer (Post 3664279)
Not sure where you are getting your info from. First of all the 321LRs aren't getting here for a few more years (2028) and when they do, they will only be concentrated out of EWR first, then the other east coast bases like IAD then ORD to replace old 757s for transatlantic flights.
The NEOs are still being planned out, but those would be transcon/HI. Right now, LAX 757 does very little HI flying, so no impact there. The 757 will shift a lot more to hub to hub flying which has already begun. The 757 fleet will be here until 2030 minimum. Only the really old ones will go. LAX and SFO 757 bases are going nowhere for a long time.

I’m sorry but I think you’ve mistaken the 321LR (NEO) for the 321XLR (with the aux fuel tank). The XLR is indeed not coming for several years. The first UAL 321LR will leave the paint shop… correction, left the paint shop last week. https://twitter.com/tobias_gudat/sta...Uxp58EzlVyznXQ I imagine it will be delivered this fall, and it is extremely well suited for transcons/HI. Starting the LRs out domestically would allow the closure of smaller/non-global 756 bases sooner, which saves more $$$ than keeping all 756 bases open. Sure, it may not play out that way… but they were awfully quick to close LAX and SFO 756 during the pandemic while keeping EWR open. I’m sure 757s will still be here through 2030 or longer, but EWR will be a 756 base well past when LAX and SFO close. I think well past IAH, DEN, and IAD too, but am not willing to put time into any educated guesses as to how that will play out.


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