id think that would help us, no?

I hope this ends up being true. Its a commuting FL pilot's dream come true if its real.

Now I guess we just need some aiplanes to get off the line in Seattle...

WB MCA CA, I’m betting double or low triple digit seniority to hold. FO, probably triple digit seniority.

As long as 737 MCO becomes attainable in either seat, idc 😂😂

Ya know, I've caught whiffs of MCO expansion dreams before and never gave them much credence. Sure, the new terminal freed up some gates but we don't exactly cater to leisure travelers on a tight budget. No WB aircraft to spread around anytime soon either. I imagine we could capitalize on Spirit's shrinkage to get even more gates soon. First time I've ever heard of senior leadership talking openly about WB service to MCO. I'm not a believer that we need a SE USA hub just to plug a hole on a map, but I'm beginning to think if we were ever to do it the next few years would be ideal. 50/50.

keep your wide bodies! Just leave me some day turns and 2 day trips out of TPA and I promise I’ll never complain about the bleed panel again!

I truly believe that the next 3-7 years will be telling. On the shorter side of the timeline, I believe we’ll increase the operation. With less flying from NK and more 737s coming on property, I think this is realistic.

Around the 5 year mark, I think we’ll start transitioning to more WB flying there. Not sure if that would be international or just domestic destinations. But I don’t think this would be unreasonable either.

At the 7+ year mark, I think we’ll start seeing big expansion in MCO. Term C expansion will be completed and our heavy MX base will be completed so all primed for either a hub or massive focus city.

All this is just what I gather from reading inbetween the lines from recent developments. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, but hoping it comes to fruition.

Just wait until they find out what equipment the MCO chief pilot flies...

This, but MCO 😂

Might turn into those CLE pilots that’s only ever flown the 737 in 25 years haha

Bear in mind that MCO widebody flying doesn't necessarily mean that MCO will be a WB pilot base. Given the loads between the northeast and MCO, quite a bit of flying could be built from EWR or IAD. Just something to keep in mind.

What is the difference between the number of 777/78 trips in the smallest base, and largest nonbase? I imagine there's plenty of 777 trips with DEN or ORD layovers but clearly not enough for the company to want to add a base there. At least that adds a datapoint of when a new WB base becomes less of a pipe dream

I think the real question is how many Polaris seats could the company fill coming to/from international destinations into/out of MCO/TPA. One argument is that, as a leisure destination, you are more likely to have cost-conscious families. Another argument is that Central Florida is growing as a business/technology hub which will draw more of those valuable Polaris business travelers AND an MCO/TPA base could feed a growing Southerneastern US network.

It will be interesting to see what United does, but with Delta and Air France flying more direct international flights out of MCO, not to mention Emirates/Virgin/BA/Azul/etc flying widebodies to MCO, there is clearly a lot of international market share to be captured. The important piece here is if Central Florida continues growing at or near the pace of the past 10 years or so.

Filled Polaris seats and average yields out of MCO/TPA are only part of the equation. The other question is whether there is more business / higher yield out of EWR/SFO/LAX etc. There may be simply be more opportunity elsewhere - specifically in a supply constraint (I.e. cannot deliver any aircraft) environment.

This. Until BA starts delivering the 787s they owe us, it’s all just mental masturbation. We can play the “what if” game until the end of time.

We already fly international from MCO to Frankfurt. Lufthansa (actually their leisure airline Discover) does. yes not our metal but with the JV its the same benefit to the company. Same for TPA.

Sorry guys, but I'm Trying to bring this thread back to life, with the same question asked here 1 million times, but now I have some CJOs to choose, and this question is very important in my decision.
How long until to get a MCO base now, in 2025 ?
I know, we don't have a crystal ball, but do you see this base closing in the future ?
Thanks for the help, cheers.

The most junior awarded FO on the last vacancy was a mid-January 2024 hire. The last I heard was no growth planned for 2025 but many people seem cautiously optimistic about some expansion down the road.

if your priority is florida, AA is the best choice

if you want to be in Orlando, UA is a reasonable/the best option. It’s a small base, movement is idiosyncratic. Should not take forever though

Cautiously optimistic is right. A ton of FL commuters are hoping Kirby’s big announcement is putting more pilots in FL bases.

I’m hoping all these PBI/FLL/MIA overnights sway someone up high we need a base in S Florida, but I’ll take anything.

If you’re truly long-term looking at FL. AA/MIA if you live south of TPA/St. Pete or DL/ATL if you live in or north of those cities.

MCO for UA will likely close in the next major downturn before its adds another category/expands it’s never gonna be one airlines hub (e.g. nowhere to expand, too low fare, too much competition). The U.S. southeast is a clear weakness in UA’s network and right now no potential to grow; just like Delta in TX or AA in pacific NW. Plus, the second you get tired of driving to fly a 737 you’ll be commuting to EWR/IAD (low frequency/lots of commuters) or IAH (senior base, low frequency, lots of commuters) both of which are mostly on 737’s (1 JS can’t be reserved).

FL commuting to ATL does have high loads, but bookable JS, high frequency on large planes, yellow slipping to only need 1 commute flight, and P.S. on the backup makes it much easier than people make it out to be + it’s an hour flight or less. ATL is also HQ (career opportunity/training center) and has 5,000+ pilots based there, seniority will always move steady there, and WB flying is night&day better than MIA. Pure speculation, but Delta is doing some interesting growth in Tampa; being the anchor tenant for new terminal/gates. Maybe a MCO/TPA 320 or 737 base once fleets consolidate more? Delta already does intl. & domestic WB flying out of TPA and MCO on their own metal with Skyteam in general dominating the TPA/MCO market.

If you can drive to MIA in south Florida that’s a clear winner. But, AA/DL’s financial performance would be a factor in on my decision as well and how you see each company performing in the near & far future.

p.s. these are my own opinions/experiences on the matter. Please take it as such

Awesome reply here !
I live in MCO, got CJO with UA, AA and UPS... But no DL. Gathering as much info as possible to make my crystal ball less hazy. Time to make the decision is coming soon. Thanks for the help !

I would put UPS as a distant 3rd, personally. There is so much more potential (seniority & finances) to be had at United & American; especially when both have bases in FL and if you ever do decide to move for whatever reason both offer much more flexibility than UPS (plus non-rev is a nice thing to have). You’re in a great spot, you can’t really go wrong.

Best of luck!

I don't know how United wouldn't be the best option. You can commute for all of them, but you can only live in base for United. even if it takes a year to get there and it closes in 2030 ... you're no worse off.

A few things here that I disagree with.

SE is a weakness and management does acknowledge that. That said, MCO yields good results. It won’t be going anywhere. In fact, UA just signed a 30 year (with an additional 10 year option) $300 million dollar contract with MCO for additional hanger and office space. That said, management said that they want to get “A+’s” in the hubs before trying to grow bases like MCO and LAS. With more planes showing up, MCO will grow (unknown by how much) along with other bases.

As far as commuting in the short term goes, EWR is your best bet. I’ve seen as much as 20 flights a day (spread across UA, NK, and JB) up to EWR. It usually averages around 14-16 flights a day though. Getting to work is a none issue. IAD/IAH have less frequency. Though, idk the exact amount. With DL making interesting moves in TPA, there’s a good chance that UA responds with its own growth plans in MCO/TPA (TPA is a co-domicile for the MCO base).

AA guys tell me that the MIA commute is awful and lots of them just end up driving to S. Florida. My DL buddy tells me that MCO-ATL is one of the toughest commutes as the JS is always booked up. Don’t shoot the messenger on this one.

I believe that UA is right choice here. Since you live in Orlando, going to UA is a no brainer. If for whatever reason it does close, you’ll be commuting (just like you would be at AA/UPS).

This is also just my .02 so take that for what it’s worth. Feel free to PM me with questions or concerns.

One of the common misconceptions around MCO is the low yeild question. While it is generally understood that Domestic US to MCO is generally a low yeild environment the same is not true for International to MCO. Most (not all) International carriers fly to MCO uncompeted. Iberia will be flying to MCO starting next month and pretty sure they can name thier price. Most passengers will pay a premium to not connect internationally..there's an enormous International market out there, especially South America to MCO. We will see if UAL ever decides to go this route.

This 100%

Ive gotten trolled for this, and I only have good intentions saying the following:

Important for everyone to consider: United and American are AIRLINES, UPS is a shipping, receiving and supply chain management company that utilizes AIR TRAVEL.

Better wording for us would be lowER yield. As long as we can get higher yields flying WBs on other routes we will do so all year long. Once we do have lots and lots of 787s THEN we may be looking at true MCO hub (2027 and beyond)...

Sorry,
Yields to orlando from anywhere are lower then most places. Its vacationers not business people. Vacationers book their travel months ahead of time and rarely pay full fare for business class. Just the nature of what Orlando is. Vacationers are looking for bargain fares as a general rule. You will never see an international hub in Orlando for United.

This 100% ☝️there's business alright .....it's just that it's the business of cheerleading competitions and not Novo Nordisk.

I used to go MCO like 6-7 times a month, there seems to be "Nationals" every week (or at least the Moms believe it's Nationals).......hey this helps us with revenue, so I say why not trophies/unaffordable trips to Orlando for everyone.

Who doesn’t like to start their international trip to Disney by way of Newark?

This is where Orlando is now. I have to imagine SK et al are thinking about what Orlando looks like in 10-30 years from now. The 3rd largest university in America, massive population growth across the entire I-4 corridor (wink wink TPA co-base), and the largest hospital in America. I want to move there, so maybe I'm biased, but this is a very different Orlando from even 10 years ago.

I can't imagine a scenario in which Orlando does not see the kind of high-income business traffic that makes a IAH/DEN/PHX/SLC viable as a hub (NYC/LAX/ORD/SFO, it is not... for sure). And it's a chance to hit AA in FL. And it's the most logical UA foothold in the Southeast. Compounded with the desire to get ahead of DAL and the international carriers who are already making moves in MCO/TPA...

But they already know all of this, which is why they are starting with the pilot base and massive MRO. As soon as they've maximized new delivery demand in the existing hubs, MCO is the obvious choice. Maybe even sooner if they buy JetBlue and get those shiny new C gates...

Apparently, UA will be in Term C starting fiscal year 2026-2027 and showing JB moved out. This is per the revenue projection by GOAA. Let’s see if it holds true lol

BA, Virgin, GOL, Emirates, Copa, Azul and many others fly into MCO. DL does MCO-AMS on a 330. Maybe HR too (could be wrong on this one)? The demand is definitely there. Some of these carriers are our code share partners. I believe that UA is focusing on polishing their hubs before expanding MCO. Any new 787 deliveries go straight to the hubs. Hopefully in 2027, we’ll turn a corner with deliveries and we start expanding MCO/TPA.

Let me help you out here...

Orlando is a trailer park in a swamp, except for Winter Park. Ain't no high end anything coming to that place lol.

The big ballers in the business world that want to be in FL are all about the Miami to WPB corridor.

Buddy Dyer is that you?


At the risk of sounding totally misinformed:
aaaa What is the name of this 3rd largest university in America that apparently calls Orlando home?

it’s linked in his reply. Univ of Central Florida.

This is completely false.

Yes, UCF is becoming a major research university. A ton of tech and defense firms have offices in Orlando including Boeing, Lockheed, Siemens, etc. There is also NASA and SpaceX and ULA and everything that goes along with it. Orlando is one of the biggest tech towns in the US (lots of simulation and training stuff for the military too) but that fact gets overshadowed because of the theme parks. And medical research is quickly becoming a thing here too.

It's been that way for decades. It really hasn't changed the nature of travel to/from Orlando, though.

Tourism will probably always overshadow everything else, but I’ve noticed a considerable amount of pax who return to Orlando from vacation or is coming in to visit family. Orlando has also expanded significantly beyond the theme parks

Disney is becoming a smaller and smaller part of Florida's future. Looking backward is easy but rarely usefull. The state is a giant wealth and population magnet. This wont change anytime soon. Orlando will be someones hub by the end of this decade. American owns Miami, Delta is obviously moving on Tampa. Really pretty certian Uniteds management, which is probably is best in decades, will be establishing a hub in the state at some point. Too many people moving in, too many companies moving in, too much cash sloshing around, it will happen.