Base Seniority
 

Can anyone share a list of bases by seniority for us in the CJO pool without access to the bidding system (if there even is a list floating around)?

At other airlines I've seen unofficial lists of bases with estimated time for new hires to hold a vacancy/line for each aircraft/position (e.g. EWR 737 FO: 3 months for a vacancy/Seniority #XXXXXX or date of hire, 6 months for a line/Seniority # XXXXXX or date of hire). It doesn't have to be that detailed, a simple ranking by seniority would be very useful.

Some of us are in a position to move our households before class, and it would be nice to have this information before Indoc. Selfishly, I am interested in a list of junior 73 CA bases so I can move there for long term QOL.

Any info is greatly appreciated. I feel very fortunate to be in the CJO pool, so grateful to be at United soon and be the plug.

if you want junior 737CA, right now that’s Newark, San Francisco, Denver, and kind of Chicago, but Chicago is trending more senior after the last vacancy.

there you go. Move to Newark, Denver, or San Fran.

I would pick something within a reasonable driving distance of SFO. Super junior base for almost any equipment type and the best wide body flying in the industry (IMO), should you ever get tired of the domestic narrow body grind (you will - trust me).

That said, everything changes rapidly, so five years (months?) from now this could be the worst advice you’ve ever received!

If you're just chasing seniority - EWR and SFO are the places. They're big; they're junior; they have everything.

The full answer you want is complex and time to hold a base vs hold a line vs hold an upgrade etc usually move in sync but not always. Some planes are also different between bases - some 757/767 bases are only 757 and only domestic. Some are mixed and fly primarily Europe with some SA/Hawaii also.

But broadly grouped

EWR/SFO - as noted above - biggest, juniorest, has everything
LAS/MCO/GUM/CLE - 737 only bases. Small. Not for everyday use
IAH - Only hub that is red, warm and no state income tax. Senior
DEN/LAX/IAD/ORD - "normal". suitable for everyday use

the one time in my Life living in this god foresaken state will benefit me (NJ)

Thank you all. This helped very much.

I am eyeing SFO now. I'll start searching for towns within 2 hrs to set up a temporary (1-2 year) home until we get to know the area better.

On the FO side, IAH is now really junior. All the new hires are going to IAH, EWR and ORD... People are bidding out of IAH as fast as they can (myself included, because Houston is... Houston).

Texans are awfully proud of their no state income tax but most pay the break even through property & sales taxes. Numbers vary by analysis but if you’re making south of around $500K, TX & CA have a relatively even overall tax burden.

TX is no doubt less expensive overall due to other cost of living factors, but the image of TX as a tax haven is only true for the very wealthy.

Are the junior 320 CA bases also EWR and SFO?

Idk about that… I’d love to see your math. Funny how you selected CA over New Jersey, Illinois, Connecticut, New Hampshire. That’s cool though let’s play with the numbers.

Quick math on a $1,000,000 property you’re paying roughly 10k in CA vs 20k in TX. State tax in California single filers pay 11.3% and joint filers pay 10.3%. In your comparison a joint filer making 500k would pay 52k in CA state taxes vs $0 in TX.

Here’s where it gets almost comical — average house price in Los Angeles 1.1m vs 320k in Dallas. So basically I can get a larger house in Dallas for less than half the price wiping out the extra 1% I’m paying on property taxes vs California.

I played this game too and no matter how you slice it Texas is still much cheaper and more affordable than California. There’s a reason people are leaving NY and CA for Texas and Florida and it’s not just cheaper cost of living too.

As I said before, TX is undoubtedly the cheaper place to live, I just get amused when people attribute that to taxes, as Texans pay plenty of taxes. (Of course, comparing income tax vs property/sales/local taxes, is very apples to oranges & varies a lot by individual based on factors like number of dependents, local credits, spending habits, property value, & more.)

No one would deny the overall cost of living is much lower in TX & there are any number of reasons a person would choose to live in either place. I was only speaking very specifically to the idea that state taxes were where the tipping point occurred- it’s much more about real estate & other cost of living expenses.

Overall, state taxes in Texas are about 65% of what they are in CALIFORNIA:

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2...burden/103495/

But that's on the average. Because the CA income tax is so "progressive" it's even higher than that for couples making over $168,000 annually.

https://states.aarp.org/california/state-tax-guide

And having the California Franchise Tax people after you is very much like being locked in a room with two or three rabid Dobermans...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw...ise-tax-board/


And their projected budget deficit for the out-years just means it's going to get worse:

https://calbudgetcenter.org/resource...17.3%20billion.

What??? Whenever I busted your ba$$s about living in NJ you said it was great

I have spent half my adult life in Texas and half my adult life in California. I would say taxes in Texas are about 80% of California.

There is so much wrong with rippinclapbomb’s post that it’s not worth quoting, but here are some more accurate assumptions.

The top marginal for married couples making up to 698k is 9.3%. However, your first 108k of joint income is only taxed at ~3%. So if you’re a married couple making 300k, that’s ~7% effective tax rate.

Honestly my tax burden was almost even in CA vs TX until we had the huge tax increase under Trump (TCJA loss of SALT deduction). At a 32% federal tax rate, I could write off 1/3 of my CA income tax burden. The GOP totally flip flopped and decided double taxation was appropriate. I cannot wait for that POS TCJA expire in 2025 and we start over fresh with new tax legislation.

Texas property taxes are awful. A 1 million dollar home in CA at ~1% property tax vs. a 500k home in Texas at ~2% property tax is the same amount of total tax dollars. However I would much rather have the home worth a million dollars because I’m getting double the home price appreciation at the same amount of property tax burden.

...and you'd be in Dallas...

people should stop trying to convince others their place is "better"

i have been telling people to stay away from Cali for decades - since I moved there - because traffic, crowding, etc has just worsened

i am relieved people are starting or leave, if you don't like it, please go ... for me the beach, the weather and mountains ain't going anywhere and no amount of $ can buy that in tx so i am staying

like statistics one can pick either side of the tax argument and convince oneself one is "winning"..as for me, i will enjoy the beach and weather and everyone else should do what makes them happy...just don't try to convince me dallas > cali and we will be fine

Someone above literally just posted a legitimate source stating 65% and for the average married legacy pilot it’s even worse to live in CA and you go “I would say taxes are about 80%” LMAO unreal assessment buddy, what a genius we have here ladies and gentlemen.

The most bizarre take I’ve read in a very long time. You’re obviously a boomer with built wealth. Think about a kid fresh out of college starting a career. You have to be able to afford that $1 million home first to receive “double the appreciation”. Most won’t be able to afford anything close to that in Cali until their late 30’s early 40’s. Years and years burning money on rent with ZERO appreciation. Big time L. Heck that might be an even bigger L than being hired at FedEx in the last few years.

oh it is 😂, but the taxes and voting history make it terrible. (I’ll never leave), lol

Back to the original thread topic, be sure to consider the opportunity to have some moving expenses paid after being on property compared to moving beforehand. I’m not up to speed on the specifics but others can chime in.

You realize boomers are all retired right??

Boomers aren't ALL retired. The last baby-boomers were born in 1964 and turn 65 in 2029.

Generally, "Boomer" is considered anyone born after WWII up to 1964. The youngest boomers would be ~60 today and could still fly as a 121 pilot for another five years.

The reason CA is such a high tax state and still has so many people clamoring to live here is that, if you can afford it, it's an absolutely gorgeous place with wonderfully mild weather, fantastic food, and incredible outdoor opportunities. Sure, our taxes suck, but it's the price you pay to live amidst such natural beauty. My backyard opens up to a gorgeous redwood forest, there's a nice beach 30 minutes away, or I can drive 3 hours for world-class skiing. There's literally nowhere else in the US like it, which is why housing is so expensive, and why the state government can get away with charging the income tax that they do.

Just like anywhere, our cities have their problems with crime and homelessness. But this state is too beautiful to contemplate leaving, at least for me...

Haha ok this is why reading the post that generated my response is critical. Why would I be trying to convince United pilots to move to Dallas, TX. I simply responded to a post claiming on 500k gross income I’d be paying the same overall taxes in TX vs CA. I brought up some rough numbers (I was off on CA state taxes by around 2%) on an individual/family grossing 500k per year.

As a Texan trying to return to the homeland, if I don't get IAH outta the gate how long is it looking to be able to bid to get down there?

Not concerned about airframe or flying style or how long I'll sit reserve. Whatever awful schedule United can throw at me still beats flying for uncle sam

Recently IAH was getting a lot of newhires. Can’t imagine it would take very long to get based there. Best bet of course is to get on the 737 for sure. This is always changing. Two years ago getting 737 Captain in Cleveland took 15 years. Then a guy with barely a year got it. Haven’t seen too many Cleveland Captain bids available recently. It ebbs and flows. That said, I think you’re in a good spot to get it in less than a year. Assuming you get the 737

Based on the last few vacancies at least it’s either 320 or 737 so you have a good shot at 737

Thanks, I appreciate the advice!

Everything ebbs and flows but currently the last two intro classes (including the one starting tomorrow)have had IAH vacancies offered. If you are getting a class date any time soon, it would surprise me if you couldn't have an IAH slot before you finished OE. Of course, I've been surprised before...

replying specifically to moose302:
New system bid opened today.
60 iah 737 fo vacancies.

So hurry up and get over here.

good luck friend.

A lot of pilots commute in from the Sacramento area. I drive to work, aggressively bid short calls for add pay, and have a swimming pool so big and deep they probably aren't legal in California anymore. But every time I'm called it's a fire drill. North of the bay...Santa Rosa, Petaluma...you will find higher prices, cooler temperatures, and more of a "Bay Area" experience with less crime. Look out at Santa Cruz for surfer/beach culture...I mean, you're moving to California...there are plenty of options out that way.

I got a few months til I'm available to start but I'll hustle down once I do. Thanks for the numbers

I know north bay has already been recommended, but also consider the Tri-Valley (Dublin, Pleasanton, Livermore) and Walnut Creek in the East Bay. It's relatively low crime, really nice downtowns, close to Napa with the Livermore area also having its own wine scene, big nuclear weapons laboratory so you'll be the first to get nuked and you won't see or feel it coming... Glass half full.

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. The flying out of Ewr is everything a pilot could ever want. The small europe cities are the most fun I have ever had. If you can sit reserve in base on something big and wait for the senior sick calls it is awesome. Yes you are going to be taxed to within an inch of your life but it is fun.

No need for NJ when Eastern PA is well within SCR range.

OMG Cali TAX is your life.. LOL

In Unity...

Any DEN pilots in here who can speak to the flying at DEN (NB or WB)? Just curious to start learning what to [hopefully] look forward to. It seems DEN as an initial assignment isn't quite as likely, so I'm curious, out of the drops that seems most likely (EWR/SFO/IAH/ORD), which would be the easiest to commute to from DEN until I am able to bid DEN?

-Cart firmly placed before the horse...

how easy to get 73 CLE FO?

Not senior but it may take a few months.

CLE/DCA/MCO/LAX are smaller bases with little to no growth and have less open slots.

LAS is super junior because of all the redeye trips and easy to get.

SFO/EWR/ORD/IAH are the growth spots and are available either immediately or shortly after indoc.

DEN 737 will take you all around the system and is the most diverse. Downside is the summer flying has quite a bit of redeyes (47% of pairings for August, 37% for September). 320 will be a bit more regional type flying but might change when more 321’s show up. I haven’t looked at the 756 bid packet in a while but it was mostly Hawaii flying with redeyes back. Just passing through the airport it seems like the 777 (no DEN 777 so it’s flown out of other bases) is doing a lot of the Hawaii flying so the 756 trip mix might be a little different. The 787 is pretty small and therefore quite senior and limited to just a few destinations. The training center is another great option if you want to spend all your nights at home.

Most of the new hires I’ve flown with recently seem to have spent a few months commuting to IAH before getting DEN. It’s hard to forecast how long it could take to hold DEN, but the base is supposed to grow even more which should create opportunities to get there quickly.

Having experience commuting to LAX, that was a super easy commute, but it has also gotten more senior. SFO sees a lot of commuters who are typically quite senior going there for arguably the best WB flying in the system. Personally I prefer to commute westbound if at all possible. At the end of the day commuting and flying standby out of DEN kind of sucks. Lots of positive space bookings for training and then you’ll run across someone who finishes training early and last second lists for the jumpseat to get home earlier. The good news is if the last few years are any indicator, you’ll get home to DEN pretty quickly. Good luck and hope to see you here soon.