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Buck Rogers 03-11-2025 01:35 AM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3891078)
It’s true management holds more cards but I’d counter that the president is a “can do little good but great harm” type of player. Wait until he puts Tucker Carlson on the NMB & tell me he’s irrelevant.

Look, I don’t know he’s gonna be bad for us, I’m just saying the administration’s attitude toward labor gives very little indication that they have any intention of being good & I don’t see that as a reason to celebrate, even if we are saving a couple bucks on TSA salaries.

Well, Shawn Fain of the UAW doesn't seem to share your angst. Or maybe he is not a union supporter in your eyes. 400,000 active members and 580,000 retired union workers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/10/trump-uaw-auto-union-shawn-fain-tariffs.html

Maybe the answers aren't quite as black and white as you want to make them out to be?

jerryleber 03-11-2025 01:39 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891159)
Where has the addition of NATO members led us?

Us? Who do you mean by 'us'? That leaves the people of Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro and Noth Macedonia far better off than they were. It allowed them to able to determine for themselves what kind of political leadership they want. It left Europe with relative stability and peacefor over seventy years.


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891159)
If Russia’s goal was, in fact, to ensure a buffer between NATO and Russia, does the Finnish addition to NATO defeat the goal?

No, because as your article pointed out Estonia and Latvia joined NATO over 20 years ago and they both border Russia not to mention Poland and Lithuania which both border Kaliningrad.


Originally Posted by TechTanker (Post 3891158)
Thank you for making my point

Sorry, but you continue to miss the point entirely.

Buck Rogers 03-11-2025 01:48 AM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891198)
Us? Who do you mean by 'us'? That leaves the people of Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro and Noth Macedonia far better off than they were. It allowed them to able to determine for themselves what kind of political leadership they want. It left Europe with relative stability and peacefor over seventy years.

No, because as your article pointed out Estonia and Latvia joined NATO over 20 years ago and they both border Russia not to mention Poland and Lithuania which both border Kaliningrad.

Dude, you realize the 2 questions you answered were not my questions don't you? They were musing from an article from University of Notre Dame International Security Center.

I took the questions as "thought provoking topics" worthy of a discussion because the answer maybe isn't as black and white as some(apparently you) want to make it out to be.

Q. Do you know what a rhetorical question is?
A. Yes, a question that someone with TDS answers "proving" orange man bad.

Most reasoble people understand rhetorical questions(like the ones in the article) aren't meant to be answered

You are awarded 1 gold star for extra effort and also get 1 demerit for lack of social awareness that forum musing of grey area topics probably can't be answerd in black/white answers.

jerryleber 03-11-2025 01:56 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891201)
I took the questions as "thought provoking topics" worthy of a discussion

And so did I, so I discussed them pointing out how the 'buffer' argument was inane given Estonia and Latvia border Russia and joined NATO over twenty years ago.

Buck Rogers 03-11-2025 02:41 AM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891203)
And so did I, so I discussed them pointing out how the 'buffer' argument was inane given Estonia and Latvia border Russia and joined NATO over twenty years ago.

https://americanliterature.com/author/james-baldwin/short-story/the-blind-men-and-the-elephant/

Maybe you are touching the tail or the trunk but think you see the whole picture.

Maybe the expansion of NATO cumulatively over 75 years from 12 to 32 nations( more than half after 1990) and 2 countries in 2023/2024(Finland, Sweden) is putting pressure or causing Russia to reassess geoplitical threats.

I in no way support Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but since possession is 9/10 of the law, I'm waiting on viable solutions from the left or "Ukraine supporters till the bitter end no matter the costs(people/money)". I see alot of "Trump bad" but haven't seen 1 solution that would be palatable to Russia.

I think Trump's assessment of "Ukraine doesn't hold the cards" is closer to reality than anything put out by the left(which I haven't seen or a solution hasn't been proffered)

Easy to criticize but hard to fix. Before a problem can be fixed, it must first be identified.

hummingbear 03-11-2025 04:03 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891199)
Well, Shawn Fain of the UAW doesn't seem to share your angst. Or maybe he is not a union supporter in your eyes. 400,000 active members and 580,000 retired union workers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/10/trump-uaw-auto-union-shawn-fain-tariffs.html

Maybe the answers aren't quite as black and white as you want to make them out to be?

Fain is for the tariffs, which is a bit more nuanced a matter than the subject of this thread- the union busting at the TSA. To my knowledge he hasn’t celebrated that move.

jerryleber 03-11-2025 05:11 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891211)
Maybe the expansion of NATO...causing Russia to reassess geoplitical threats.

I in no way support Russia's invasion of Ukraine... but haven't seen 1 solution that would be palatable to Russia.

Of course you don't. How do those new NATO countries threaten the country with more nuclear weapons than any other country on earth?

MergingTargets 03-11-2025 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by Otie (Post 3890706)
my f.o. last month was a Marxist.
God was he miserable.

You, on the other hand, sound like a delightful 4-day!

joepilot50 03-11-2025 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891211)
https://americanliterature.com/author/james-baldwin/short-story/the-blind-men-and-the-elephant/

Maybe you are touching the tail or the trunk but think you see the whole picture.

Maybe the expansion of NATO cumulatively over 75 years from 12 to 32 nations( more than half after 1990) and 2 countries in 2023/2024(Finland, Sweden) is putting pressure or causing Russia to reassess geoplitical threats.

I in no way support Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but since possession is 9/10 of the law, I'm waiting on viable solutions from the left or "Ukraine supporters till the bitter end no matter the costs(people/money)". I see alot of "Trump bad" but haven't seen 1 solution that would be palatable to Russia.

I think Trump's assessment of "Ukraine doesn't hold the cards" is closer to reality than anything put out by the left(which I haven't seen or a solution hasn't been proffered)

Easy to criticize but hard to fix. Before a problem can be fixed, it must first be identified.

If the US was invaded, would you be fight fight fight or just let the invaders keep the occupied states? And you realize most of the money is staying in the US? The weapons we are/were given to Ukraine were older weapons you were paying to store, maintain, and eventually decomission and scrap and are being valued at full replacement cost vs valued as used military equipment that they are. So we are modernizing our own military while off loading the costs of getting rid of older equipment. All while giving an invaded country and ally means to defending themselves.

And use the invaders talking points to justify the surrender?

Do you think the US should have resumed supplying Japan oil after Pearl Harbor?

Solution is easy. Russia leaves Ukraine and respects borders of pre-2022 invasion, Ukraine gives up trying to reclaim Crimea, changes constitution to remove NATO mandate, and western allies promise to keep on protecting Ukraine, but no weapons outside of those given to Ukraine for their military to be stationed in Ukraine. Should be palatable to Russia if NATO expansion was their concern and nuclear missiles stationed in Ukraine.

And their invasion is what led to the latest expansion with Finland/Sweden. Russia is worried about a defensive pact invading Russia, but it is their own actions that is driving the eastern European/former USSR countries to wanting to join NATO in the first place. They don't want to get invaded by Russia. And so far ones fears is pure paranoia and the other fear is closer to reality thanks to Georgia and Ukraine.

Buck Rogers 03-11-2025 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891238)
Of course you don't. How do those new NATO countries threaten the country with more nuclear weapons than any other country on earth?

So I guess Russsian/Chinese/Iranian/N korea backed Cuban based missiles would be ok with you? Not any difference exept the " eye of the beholder". Seems as if the US has been down that path before.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-nuclear-warhead-stockpiles-1945-2024/

JayRalstonSmith 03-11-2025 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by Otie (Post 3890706)

God was he miserable.

Let me guess: You started the trip with the same diatribe about politics. He didn't want to engage (maybe he agreed with you, maybe he didn't, more likely didnt want to spend the trip talking politics) and you automatically assumed he's a Marxist, right?

jerryleber 03-11-2025 07:38 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891275)
So I guess Russsian/Chinese/Iranian/N korea backed Cuban based missiles would be ok with you? Not any difference exept the " eye of the beholder".

Not any difference? The US already had nukes in Europe not to mention France and Britain's, none of which are in new NATO countries.

Spesiellsporing 03-11-2025 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by TechTanker (Post 3891158)
Thank you for making my point with your AI generated response.

#2. Kinda hard to have economic strength when your economy is “bankrupt” and in the crapper

#3. As mentioned at the end of your AI generated response there are other players like BRICS who is actively trying to over turn the Dollar and make their countries the hub of global finance.

#4. Again, not much depth in the financial markets if our economy is in the crapper.

#5. Geopolitical power. We have a great Military now but if our economy is in the toilet there won’t be any money to fund military spending.

#6. Yea that confidence would be gone in a heartbeat if we go “bankrupt”.

Look I know I was being kinda harsh earlier with my responses. But what I said still holds true. We cannot keep spending money like there is no tomorrow because I guarantee if nothing changes that rooster will come home to roost and none of us will like what happens. A little recession that lasts a few years will be the least of our problems. Republicans and Democrats need to come together and realize this is unsustainable. But I’m afraid Dems won’t be able to get over their TDS and Republicans won’t get over their MAGA.


The notion of our economy being a disaster is a fallacy. The numbers show quite the opposite. Our GDP is higher than any of the G7 economies.

Do there need to be targeted, rational, humane spending cuts? Absolutely. But we’re not going to put a dent in this with spending cuts alone. Taxes will also need to be addressed to reduce/eliminate the deficit. People are lying to themselves if they believe otherwise.

The Trump tariffs are nothing more than a regressive tax that will destroy the current 3.2 GDP. Targeted tariffs in specific scenarios have been beneficial. Trump’s use of tariffs based upon ill conceived notions of fairness and grievance is economic malpractice.

SonicFlyer 03-11-2025 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by Spesiellsporing (Post 3891370)
we’re not going to put a dent in this with spending cuts alone. Taxes will also need to be addressed to reduce/eliminate the deficit.

This is absolutely false.

jerryleber 03-11-2025 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3891378)
This is absolutely false.

Really? Why? Show us your undoubtedly interesting assumptions and math.

Bahamasflyer 03-11-2025 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3890872)
Government is unilaterally canceling union contracts & our union brothers are applauding it. File that under “this is why we can’t have nice things”. I certainly have my opinions about the size & scope of TSA but the administration’s (dis)regard for organized labor is discouraging.
Remember we’ll be at the negotiating table again in a few years & possibly trying to claw back some purchasing power from the tariff economy. Question: do you think this move creates an environment that empowers labor or management?

OK…..why then wasn’t a single work group released under Biden despite the brunt of airline contracts being g well past the amendable date then???

answer that please

BlueScholar 03-11-2025 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer (Post 3891395)
OK…..why then wasn’t a single work group released under Biden despite the brunt of airline contracts being g well past the amendable date then???

answer that please

You're really trying to say that the government not releasing critical insdustries to go on strike is the same as the government dissolving unions?

Buck Rogers 03-11-2025 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by BlueScholar (Post 3891405)
You're really trying to say that the government not releasing critical insdustries to go on strike is the same as the government dissolving a unions?

You're really trying to say the government would let TSA go on strike.

For all I know maybe they are already prevented from going on strike. But, since they are there for "safety" and are front facing customer "service" reps, a strike to be paid like Flight attendants would be plausible.

If they are/were "union brothers" would I support that?

Rolling stikes like the French rail workers( happened to me 3 times over the years while on vacation in France). I didn't raise my fist in solidarity, was I supposed to?

jerryleber 03-11-2025 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891416)
You're really trying to say the government would let TSA go on strike.

No, he's obviously not saying that, but beautiful strawman. Too funny.

SonicFlyer 03-11-2025 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891387)
Really? Why? Show us your undoubtedly interesting assumptions and math.

It's real simple. Cut all unconstitutional spending. Keep income revenues where they are at until the debt is paid off, then lower income to match spending. This isn't difficult.

jerryleber 03-11-2025 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3891430)
Cut all unconstitutional spending.

And to keep the answer shorter, what spending is constitutional? How many current elected officials agree with you?

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3891430)
Keep income revenues where they are at until the debt is paid off, then lower income to match spending.

What income revenues are constitutional?

hummingbear 03-11-2025 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3891416)
Rolling stikes like the French rail workers( happened to me 3 times over the years while on vacation in France). I didn't raise my fist in solidarity, was I supposed to?

No one is asking you to join picket lines while vacationing with your family. Not publicly celebrating government strong arm tactics against another union feels like a pretty low bar to clear.

hummingbear 03-11-2025 09:58 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3891430)
It's real simple. Cut all unconstitutional spending. Keep income revenues where they are at until the debt is paid off, then lower income to match spending. This isn't difficult.

R’s control all branches of government. If it’s that easy why aren’t they doing it yesterday instead of pitching a budget proposal that adds trillions more to the debt? Since I watched the circus last time it was in town I’ll tip you off: Don the Con is about to leave you high & dry on the budget. But not to worry- lest the true believers be disappointed he’ll unveil a perfectly satisfying excuse of why it’s all the fault of Nancy Pelosi & the radical left Marxists.

ugleeual 03-11-2025 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3891481)
R’s control all branches of government. If it’s that easy why aren’t they doing it yesterday instead of pitching a budget proposal that adds trillions more to the debt? Since I watched the circus last time it was in town I’ll tip you off: Don the Con is about to leave you high & dry on the budget. But not to worry- lest the true believers be disappointed he’ll unveil a perfectly satisfying excuse of why it’s all the fault of Nancy Pelosi & the radical left Marxists.

“control” is a little bit misleading… it’s true the Rs have a majority but you can’t pass a bill into law unless you have enough votes (60) to break a filibuster in the Senate. Personally I’d like to see the filibuster go away (simple majority) as the Ds stated last year (before the elections and when they though they’d have the majority) they would abolish the filibuster and push through the socialist agenda they had in tap. Time for FAFO to be implemented by the Rs if the Ds keep voting block NO on everything…

JayRalstonSmith 03-11-2025 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891434)
What income revenues are constitutional?

Everything outlined in the 16th Amendment, as upheld by Brushaber in the Supreme Court.

jerryleber 03-11-2025 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by JayRalstonSmith (Post 3891528)
Everything outlined in the 16th Amendment, as upheld by Brushaber in the Supreme Court.

I agree, but I was looking for our resident Austrian School flat earther to tell us why the 16th Amendment and Brushaber are unconstitutional.;)

Spesiellsporing 03-11-2025 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891434)
And to keep the answer shorter, what spending is constitutional? How many current elected officials agree with you?
What income revenues are constitutional?

Any politician who starts meddling with those “unconstitutional revenues” (is that Heritage Foundation speak?) might as bend over and lick the third rail. Come to think of it…..

SonicFlyer 03-11-2025 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891434)
And to keep the answer shorter, what spending is constitutional?

Everything listed in Article I Sec 8


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891434)
How many current elected officials agree with you?

1, maybe 2 or 3

Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891434)
What income revenues are constitutional?

Income tax (maybe) and tariffs. Honestly I'm not sure about a sales tax.


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891534)
tell us why the 16th Amendment and Brushaber are unconstitutional.;)

There is a theory out there that the 16th Amendment wasn't lawfully ratified. I'm 85% sold on it, but not 100%.

SonicFlyer 03-11-2025 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by hummingbear (Post 3891481)
If it’s that easy why aren’t they doing it yesterday instead of pitching a budget proposal that adds trillions more to the debt?

Because they get reelected by doleing out the pork. And the Federal Reserve just prints money out of thin air, so no one really cares because any pain that results is distributed/diffused among the entire population.

sailingfun 03-12-2025 05:16 AM


Originally Posted by Hornetdrvr (Post 3890710)
Yep, and the one before him spent 500+ days of his presidency on vacation.

At least they were cheap vacations. Trumps golfing trips are very expensive giving how much he bills the government for his Mar Lago stays. Who was it who said Obama should not be golfing twice a month when he was President?

hummingbear 03-12-2025 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3891641)
Because they get reelected by doleing out the pork. And the Federal Reserve just prints money out of thin air, so no one really cares because any pain that results is distributed/diffused among the entire population.

Well if that’s your position we’re in agreement. I see a lot of “the adults are back in charge” talk about all these Trump/Musk moves which I see as largely performance art- Elon dancing around w/ a chainsaw while DOGE focuses on 4% of government spending. Meanwhile, you’ve got overpriced Mar a Lago suites for the Secret Service here, a couple hundred million on DHS commercials to stoke Trump’s ego there, offsetting a lot of Musk’s “efficiencies”.

Of course the real scam is a budget plan that adds trillions to the debt largely through high end tax cuts while they pat themselves on the back for massive layoffs that don’t actually tip the scale.

Again if that’s your (not you specifically) vision for the country, just say that, but don’t pretend this is fiscal responsibility in any way is my point.

ugleeual 03-12-2025 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3891874)
At least they were cheap vacations. Trumps golfing trips are very expensive giving how much he bills the government for his Mar Lago stays. Who was it who said Obama should not be golfing twice a month when he was President?

‘his home is Mar Lago… just like Beach house in DE was Uncle Joes… they have every right to spend weekends at their homes… problem is Uncle Joe spent weeks there on end… hence the auto pen.

sailingfun 03-12-2025 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by ugleeual (Post 3892082)
‘his home is Mar Lago… just like Beach house in DE was Uncle Joes… they have every right to spend weekends at their homes… problem is Uncle Joe spent weeks there on end… hence the auto pen.

Much as I dislike Uncle Joe he did not charge the government when he stayed at home. Trump is billing the government very large sums of money for every stay at his home. His entire entourage including secret service pays him vis the government for their rooms food and other items at very high rates. One article that I don't quite believe says he bills for his quarters as well. He also takes vastly more trips home than any president in history.
Mar Lago is also by zoning and club by laws a for profit club and no one can be a resident.

at6d 03-12-2025 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by jerryleber (Post 3891200)
Us? Who do you mean by 'us'? That leaves the people of Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro and Noth Macedonia far better off than they were. It allowed them to able to determine for themselves what kind of political leadership they want. It left Europe with relative stability and peacefor over seventy years.

Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro? Throw in Bosnia and Serbia. Peaceful indeed, 140,000 dead and 4 million displaced when Yugoslavia imploded. Albania is a tinder box right now. Tensions are still present in Sarajevo. Go to these countries and see for yourself like I did. Ask the Slovenians about Ukraine. Their response may surprise you.

Also, not sure if this was in a post of yours—referring to weapons being shipped out as “old”—Javelins are not old. Unless I have it wrong, The order for 100 M1 Abrams tanks was for new builds.

In addition, the EU spent more money in Russia buying energy than they contributed to Ukraine’s defense. They basically funded the invasion. But whatever, what do I know? Maybe I should renew my Swiss passport LOL.

JayRalstonSmith 03-14-2025 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3891639)

There is a theory out there that the 16th Amendment wasn't lawfully ratified. I'm 85% sold on it, but not 100%.

The Court already settled it when they heard Brushaber. Had it not been lawfully ratified, the pleading would have been invalid and never legally binding and the Court would have stated that. Instead the Court heard the case and decided, which procedurually settled the question.

ugleeual 03-14-2025 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3892100)
Much as I dislike Uncle Joe he did not charge the government when he stayed at home. Trump is billing the government very large sums of money for every stay at his home. His entire entourage including secret service pays him vis the government for their rooms food and other items at very high rates. One article that I don't quite believe says he bills for his quarters as well. He also takes vastly more trips home than any president in history.
Mar Lago is also by zoning and club by laws a for profit club and no one can be a resident.

you get these “facts” from The View hosts? Can you enlighten the rest of us with something concrete from an official government filing rather than the left wing propaganda?

SonicFlyer 03-14-2025 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by JayRalstonSmith (Post 3893008)
The Court already settled it when they heard Brushaber. Had it not been lawfully ratified, the pleading would have been invalid and never legally binding and the Court would have stated that. Instead the Court heard the case and decided, which procedurually settled the question.

SCOTUS just makes stuff up all the time and doesn't have any intellectual integrity so they aren't really a reliable source of information.

ERAUAV8TR 03-14-2025 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by ugleeual (Post 3893028)
you get these “facts” from The View hosts? Can you enlighten the rest of us with something concrete from an official government filing rather than the left wing propaganda?

Funny is I guessed who posted this. Bahaha

SoFloFlyer 03-14-2025 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3893078)
SCOTUS just makes stuff up all the time and doesn't have any intellectual integrity so they aren't really a reliable source of information.

This is the dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time.

JayRalstonSmith 03-14-2025 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by SonicFlyer (Post 3893078)
SCOTUS just makes stuff up all the time and doesn't have any intellectual integrity so they aren't really a reliable source of information.

Terrifying that they entrust you with an airplane and passengers.


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