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What Would You Do?
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an april class date offer from UAL, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? |
Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an April class date offer, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? It’s all a very personal decision, but all things being equal I would say that your biggest risk is starting over at the bottom of a new seniority list (furlough fodder). However, No wife, no kids, and no mortgage really ease that hardship if it were to happen. If it were me, I’d say go for it. Even the simple ability to change fleet type can make this seem like a whole new exciting job and airline every 5 or 10 years. Put your app in. You may never even get a call to interview and the answer is decided for you, but you don’t win a game you never even tried to play. |
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
(Post 3891863)
Where do you live? Where do you want to live? Would you move to a UAL domicile or commute? What’s the commute like?
It’s all a very personal decision, but all things being equal I would say that your biggest risk is starting over at the bottom of a new seniority list (furlough fodder). However, No wife, no kids, and no mortgage really ease that hardship if it were to happen. If it were me, I’d say go for it. Even the simple ability to change fleet type can make this seem like a whole new exciting job and airline every 5 or 10 years. Put your app in. You may never even get a call to interview and the answer is decided for you, but you don’t win a game you never even tried to play. |
Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891877)
I live in Orlando, but I'm not as married to it as I thought I would be when I left Chicago. Wouldn't mind commuting for the right reason, and I have a class date offer already.
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Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an april class date offer from UAL, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? No regrets at all! Won’t go into personal details! But I was scared and unsure too, coming out of covid times. |
Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an april class date offer from UAL, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? |
With four years of seniority, 1200 below you at your age I WOULD STAY AT JB for now and re-evualate career life goals closer to when you're 40 years old.
At 40, you can still have a solid 25 year career whatever you decide to do. You have done well at your age to get where you are. Historically, the average age of a legacy new hire was closer to 40. The last few years have been exceptional, not the norm. At your age, you can still afford to make a mistake and recover by age 40 to have a full career. If staying at JB turns out to be a mistake, so be it and move on. But I think the next year or two might be kind of uncertain in the airlines and in times like that it is usually best to ride the horse on you're on rather than taking a risk. |
Originally Posted by zerozero
(Post 3891926)
With four years of seniority, 1200 below you at your age I WOULD STAY AT JB for now and re-evualate career life goals closer to when you're 40 years old.
At 40, you can still have a solid 25 year career whatever you decide to do. You have done well at your age to get where you are. Historically, the average age of a legacy new hire was closer to 40. The last few years have been exceptional, not the norm. At your age, you can still afford to make a mistake and recover by age 40 to have a full career. If staying at JB turns out to be a mistake, so be it and move on. But I think the next year or two might be kind of uncertain in the airlines and in times like that it is usually best to ride the horse on you're on rather than taking a risk. |
Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
- 32
- no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - ? even if a big 3 buys jet blue you are unlikely to have some huge seniority windfall Yes, it’s possible you could be furloughed briefly. It is highly unlikely the nasty stuff from the lost decade repeats. The industry was undergoing a lot of structural changes that are now done and can’t be repeated. There are a lot retirements coming up over the next decade. take the class |
The most important thing to consider is where you want to live and where you would be based.
MCO is not a hub for United. It is only a 737 base that recently opened. It won’t ever be a wide body base. It could close at any time (United has closed SEA, HNL, and MIA pilot bases in recent memory). Plus it’s unlikely you’ll get MCO based initially, so you’ll have to commute for a period of time regardless. I personally would not come to UAL unless you are comfortable with committing to IAH or IAD for the rest of your career. Otherwise I would stay at JB. |
Originally Posted by iahflyr
(Post 3891987)
The most important thing to consider is where you want to live and where you would be based.
MCO is not a hub for United. It is only a 737 base that recently opened. It won’t ever be a wide body base. It could close at any time (United has closed SEA, HNL, and MIA pilot bases in recent memory). Plus it’s unlikely you’ll get MCO based initially, so you’ll have to commute for a period of time regardless. I personally would not come to UAL unless you are comfortable with committing to IAH or IAD for the rest of your career. Otherwise I would stay at JB. |
Originally Posted by ERAUAV8TR
(Post 3892010)
If Harris won I would say no doubt come over. But Trump's ability to ruin the economy in 7 weeks, I feel we will furlough people. I hope our new MEC chair starts fund soon and works his hardest to protect our people.
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My 2¢ (while we are still minting pennies)- at 32 & unattached I’d make the move. To paraphrase the old investment axiom, “Time [at your retirement airline] is more important than timing”. The last decade (COVID aside) has conditioned many of us to think boom times are the norm. (They aren’t.) Economic uncertainty is usually dangling out there, & signing on to the bottom of a seniority list is usually scary. Luckily your life circumstances seem to provide you decent flexibility in a worst case scenario.
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Originally Posted by BlueScholar
(Post 3892005)
Setting all political, moral, religious and sports opinions aside, when was the last time we had a R in the White House and airline pilots didn't get furloughed? I gave up once I reached Gerald Ford, feel free to take up the hunt there at Nixon. You can assign blame or excuses as you personally see fit, but if you read the headlines and think we can buck that trend then make the move to United and don't look back.
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If the reason you are staying at B6 is truly in the hope that B6 will be bought out, you are STILL rolling the dice. Ask the VX guys at AS - those ones still there. You never know what the SLI is going to look like, or what the retirement situation will be at the combined carrier.
United still hasn't hit peak retirement and that covers a multitude of issues, but - yeah - no question it's starting over on probation pay. |
-You will never fly widebodies or long international at JB.
-JB is one economic sneeze away from going TU. -There are still a bunch of retirements coming up at UAL. -United is "too big to fail". -There is nothing like bidding and thinking "Where do I want to spend Christmas this year? London? Paris? Y'know, let's go somewhere warm. How about Sydney?" Let's say you take the April class, get furloughed in December, get a job at Home Depot and aren't called back for 5 years. You'll still be 37 years old with a senority number at a major airline. I was a CFI until I was 35, got on with a regional (history lesson: look up "Pay for Training") and got hired at my major at 40. Furloughed a month later and called back at 45. Many of my FOG generation would kill to have this decision, and there's no question what the decision would be. |
Originally Posted by md11pilot11
(Post 3891992)
Ask yourself if you would still come to United if MCO737 didn’t exist.
But, iahflyer said with good reason that MCO will never be a widebody base. However, it strongly appears that we will be moving over to Terminal C next year (and JB is leaving. Source was a plannng doc posted by the MCO airport authority showing terminal C airline revenue streams next year - JB was zeroed out and UAL was in its place.). Maybe the move will never happen. But if it does, the pieces will be in place for UAL to fly significantly more widebodies into MCO and all that might entail (my understanding is we currently only have one WB capable gate in MCO). We already have a big maintenance base in MCO, so expanding flying should be easy with more capable gates. I'm saying there's a chance, maybe one in a million (ok, better than that but you get the joke). Perfectly understandable to stay where you are. But, if you do you will always wonder what might have been. If you are okay with possibly moving to a UAL hub or commuting, plus being exposed for a few years to possible stagnation and/or furlough - I say make the leap. |
I vote to make the jump. Look out 10 years, is there any reason to think JB will more likely be around than UAL, in any form? No.
It's a bit of a process, to go from hiring, to furlogh. Its like turning that aircraft carrier. I do agree, the economy can throw curve balls. If needed you can always go to the Far East to put that Airbus experince to work, as a bonus, a wife is added. I think it could be a bonus. |
Originally Posted by CLazarus
(Post 3892096)
This!!
But, iahflyer said with good reason that MCO will never be a widebody base. However, it strongly appears that we will be moving over to Terminal C next year (and JB is leaving. Source was a plannng doc posted by the MCO airport authority showing terminal C airline revenue streams next year - JB was zeroed out and UAL was in its place.). Maybe the move will never happen. But if it does, the pieces will be in place for UAL to fly significantly more widebodies into MCO and all that might entail (my understanding is we currently only have one WB capable gate in MCO). We already have a big maintenance base in MCO, so expanding flying should be easy with more capable gates. I'm saying there's a chance, maybe one in a million (ok, better than that but you get the joke). Perfectly understandable to stay where you are. But, if you do you will always wonder what might have been. If you are okay with possibly moving to a UAL hub or commuting, plus being exposed for a few years to possible stagnation and/or furlough - I say make the leap. |
Originally Posted by hummingbear
(Post 3892027)
My 2¢ (while we are still minting pennies)- at 32 & unattached I’d make the move. To paraphrase the old investment axiom, “Time [at your retirement airline] is more important than timing”. The last decade (COVID aside) has conditioned many of us to think boom times are the norm. (They aren’t.) Economic uncertainty is usually dangling out there, & signing on to the bottom of a seniority list is usually scary. Luckily your life circumstances seem to provide you decent flexibility in a worst case scenario.
million $ a year. I wouldn’t enter this profession or suggest it to someone about to graduate high-school. |
Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 3892132)
You’re 32 now - when you’re 55 in 23 years it’s most likely going to be single pilot, or they’ll open up the sky’s and Aeromexico will be flying domestic flights because they can’t pay pilots 2
million $ a year. I wouldn’t enter this profession or suggest it to someone about to graduate high-school. |
Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an april class date offer from UAL, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? |
If living in FL is high importance for you than stay at JB and apply to AA and get to MIA.
If not, sprint to UA. You're 32 with nothing rooting you anywhere from your given factors. Yes risk is inherent everywhere. But stay at B6 and be "safe" but stagnant or have lots of options of at United and make more $$$ regardless in the long run. I'd venture to say if UA is furloughing, you'd be furloughed at B6 as well. Me, I'd rather be furloughed, mid-thirties on UA's list than B6's with Ichan's nose in the tent and financial uncertainty going on. Good luck! |
Originally Posted by Beech Dude
(Post 3892181)
If living in FL is high importance for you than stay at JB and apply to AA and get to MIA.
If not, sprint to UA. You're 32 with nothing rooting you anywhere from your given factors. Yes risk is inherent everywhere. But stay at B6 and be "safe" but stagnant or have lots of options of at United and make more $$$ regardless in the long run. I'd venture to say if UA is furloughing, you'd be furloughed at B6 as well. Me, I'd rather be furloughed, mid-thirties on UA's list than B6's with Ichan's nose in the tent and financial uncertainty going on. Good luck! |
Ill add my $0.02....
Without any responsibilities I'd be chomping at the bit to take that class date with UAL. Yes their is uncertainity right now and its scary but your still so young and should retire within the top 1500ish. Thats good enough to be a WB CA in your base of choice. Best of luck and let us know |
Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an april class date offer from UAL, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? There is risk in leaving as well as risk in staying. There is more of a furlough risk at an LCC right now than United. Just look at Spirit. Is Jetblue even hiring right now? A downturn will affect all airlines. The only potential hiring at Jetblue now is because pilots like yourself are leaving. United has had 2 furloughs in the last 45 years. One was 9/11 and the other was the GFC. Even Covid didn't cause a furlough. With retirements growing evey year and staying over 500 for a decade as well as 700 planes on delivery there is an extremely low chance of a furlough. Even the 21 airplanes being announced to be parked early are being replaced by 65 new planes being delivered in 2025. I have not flown with one former JB/NK/F9 etc pilot that has said they regret coming to United. My last FO (late 30s) left Southwest to come to United and he said it was by far the best move. JB has zero 320s being delivered in 2026, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The only reason they will hire is to replace the people leaving for other airlines. I hope that if you decide to stay you let United know so they can put someone else in that class that wants to be here. If you are ambivolent stay at Jetblue and let someone that really wants to be here have the job. |
Full disclaimer: I don't work for either company.
I would take the class date at UAL and move to a real city that has a better young professional scene. Orlando sucks for a single man your age (been there, done that, and it was kinda lame). Secondly, don't wait around for a potential merger announcement. Even if it does happen, there's a solid chance that B6 managment completely flubs it up just like they did with NK. You don't want to waste years of seniority movement elsewhere while some coward like Robin Hayes fakes a health condition to avoid being accountable for why he's so bad at running an airline. |
Originally Posted by CLazarus
(Post 3892096)
This!!
But, iahflyer said with good reason that MCO will never be a widebody base. However, it strongly appears that we will be moving over to Terminal C next year (and JB is leaving. Source was a plannng doc posted by the MCO airport authority showing terminal C airline revenue streams next year - JB was zeroed out and UAL was in its place.). Maybe the move will never happen. But if it does, the pieces will be in place for UAL to fly significantly more widebodies into MCO and all that might entail (my understanding is we currently only have one WB capable gate in MCO). We already have a big maintenance base in MCO, so expanding flying should be easy with more capable gates. I'm saying there's a chance, maybe one in a million (ok, better than that but you get the joke). Perfectly understandable to stay where you are. But, if you do you will always wonder what might have been. If you are okay with possibly moving to a UAL hub or commuting, plus being exposed for a few years to possible stagnation and/or furlough - I say make the leap. https://flymco.com/media/press-releases/item/new-lease-agreement-with-united-airlines-brings-valued-aeronautical-development-to-region/ Besides probably moving over to Term C, this was announced back in October. I believe MCO is primed for WB flying (not necessarily a hub, but who knows). United is investing in MCO and won’t be going anywhere. I would say to take the jump. It’s a total night and day difference from the LCC/ULCCs. Competent management, good people and a solid contract makes this place an awesome place to work at. I know the rule is to not trust CEOs, especially airline CEOs, but Kirby reaffirmed that he doesn’t plan on furloughing anyone and in fact, wants to to continue to hire more people through the slow down. This is a tune he’s been humming since before I should up on property. Whether he sticks to his word or not, is yet to be seen, BUT he’s the only saying this publicly (which is pretty bold). So take that for what it’s worth. Hope some of this stuff helps! |
Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 3892132)
I wouldn’t enter this profession or suggest it to someone about to graduate high-school.
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Originally Posted by Beech Dude
(Post 3892181)
If living in FL is high importance for you than stay at JB and apply to AA and get to MIA.
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Originally Posted by Anonymous2092
(Post 3891855)
Yet another "Stay or Leave" post.
I've been at B6 for coming up on 4 years now, based in MCO. I came here because I wanted to live in FL, and I didn't want to be furloughed. I'd been holding out on leaving because of fears of a furlough back when everyone in my class left. Now it's been years, and all my classmates that went to legacies are having a ball while we've been struggling to grow. I was feeling, a bit optimistic back when I thought we might gain Spirit's route network, but now that thats all fallen through and with all the downgrades coming, I just feel like I sold myself short. Now don't get me wrong, B6 has been good to me, but I'd be lying if I said I really look forward to the next 30+ years at this moment in time. Now with an april class date offer from UAL, I'm stuck wondering if the possibility of a furlough in the near future is worth the risk. The economy isn't looking great right now, and hiring is starting to slow down. I've got good senioriy at B6 with 1,200 below me, but I'm not sure if thats saying much when I fly with 12+ year captains on reserve. Things worth noting: - 32 - no kids - no wife - no debt - no mortgage - widebody flying seems cool, but isn't a main driver - don't mind commuting for now if I know it'll be worth the long-term gain All things being equal, I feel relatively good about JetBlue's future, but thats only because I think we will be bought in the next 2-4 years. Is it worth staying to find out? WWYD? |
I don't know....what should I do....everyone in my class left and is having a blast...
I'm done. |
Just make the decision to go or stay but waffling back and forth will probably screw you in the end.
If you don't want to go to UA let them know because I am sure there are others that would love to take that slot. |
Like others have said, go to UAL and don't look back. Retirements haven't peaked yet and UAL is in a strong position financially with good leadership. Like a few others have said, worst case is you get furlouged for a bit and return with job at UAL.
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Originally Posted by 86BravoPapa
(Post 3892165)
WTF is this irrelevant nonsense? Not a damn thing applies to the OPs question. Sounds like the typical bitter captain you can spot a mile a way, walking through the terminals.
To the OP: my opinion would be that you are in a great position to go. I started over after a decade and am older with more responsibilities. I still think it a good move, just know it's gonna take a minute (maybe years) to hold MCO. |
You just said it, hiring is slowing down , planes being retired , and you fear a near furlough.
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Originally Posted by SeaRider
(Post 3892310)
I can see him now...the quintessential rotund 60-something-year-old, wearing a bomber jacket and hat down low, grumpy at the world and everyone around him.
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Originally Posted by JoePatroni
(Post 3892409)
You left out the black Reeboks and cell phone holster.
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Originally Posted by ReadOnly7
(Post 3892438)
I’m no defender of the Reeboks and cell phone holster…..but the women’s pants and silly “Goose” mustache y’all have…..isn’t a solid look, either.
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Originally Posted by AMC190
(Post 3891899)
Everything comes with a risk! I left b6 after 4 1/2 years in 21’ !
No regrets at all! Won’t go into personal details! But I was scared and unsure too, coming out of covid times. |
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