Spirit opportunities
 

I feel terrible for everyone at Spirit. I left there a few years ago myself and still have friends there. But no one can deny there are a lot of opportunities for growth for the airlines still here. I’m assuming Kirby has had plans in place for some time now. The media talks about acquiring pilots and planes frequently, but I feel like it will be gate acquisitions that determine the real winners of all of this.Personally, I hope we are major buyers for gates in Fort Lauderdale and Orlando. It would be great to have a much larger presence and an actual pilot hub in Florida.

Did you really feel the need to make this post? You post Covid hires are something else.

Um, we do have a pilot base in Orlando.

The body is still warm and you're out here starting threads about picking the carcass apart? Nice 3rd post for a troll handle, douchebag.

This is the Spirit opportunity that should be emphasized right now

I can see JetBlue taking advantage of this, they are much more of a leisure carrier than United is. Perhaps this will save them from going bankrupt. But if there is an opportunity, I am sure Kirby will make the most of it.

Jetblue already added 11 routes to FLL this morning so they're trying to fill the void. We can hire those guys for sure and the company is giving them an advantage in a way but there's no reason we should try to get a hub in Florida especially with today's fuel prices. There's a reason that Spirit went out of business and part of it was their large presence in Florida. Can we still get some market share? Yes but in moderation.

not necessarily disagreeing with you.....but could you expand on that thesis

Yields in that market suck. It’s just far too saturated and likely low on upselling potential.

spirit was the chicken and the egg there. A network airline with 4 class mainline aircraft can manage that opportunity much better

All the yields are public DOT data. You can look it up. FLL/MCO make like $120+/pax less than our hubs for domestic yields. A 737/320 usage means we're taking almost a $20k hit in revenue per flight.

And yes spirit/frontier have a good sized presence there but there's a reason that there was a vacuum to fill. No one else wants it at that scale. Vacation markets don't pay the bills. They exist to give points redemptions to credit card holders.

Contrary to what many people were saying, Scott Kirby was (unfortunately) right.

This I didn’t know. Where is this public data published? I actually do wish to look it up…not to prove anyone wrong more to quench my thirst for yield statistics.

I think this is the result of a heavy ULCC presence in FLL. I think of full service carriers can corner the market, then this should result in yields increasing.

Next point is directed at you but more towards OP. OP you didn’t have to create this thread….. Today is the not the day…

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/averagefare/

Yes I think yields would come up without the competition but how much would it go up?

This is also the united subforum. I'm not going into the spirit one to put them down.

I know it’s public data. But that data is based on the heavy presence of ULCCs in the market. My point was if full service carriers can corner the market and dominate share, yields should come up.

Sorry edited my post to address your point. I was trying to write the guy above you for the stats.

I don't see the yields coming up that much. For that kind of "cornering the market", it would take a lot of money losing fares to build market share over years. Not the best time to do it with spiking oil. United already is cutting 5% of flying to address keeping up margins. Shareholders need to be kept happy too, just a reality of the business. Last thing United needs is an activist investor.

And it's not a guarantee that those markets will ever be strong enough to justify the money losing flying. For all we know another LCC just pops in.

Mods, please delete this thread. We should uphold some modicum of respect and decency in this forum.

I remember seeing that we were profitable in MCO/TPA. Not like the hubs, but definitely not losing money. I forgot where I saw this though.

There’s a reason MCO is exclusively 739, 7M9, 321, 757, and the occasional 777. From time to time, you’ll get a 7M8.

As a side note, 2% of the 5% was from TLV and DXB. Something that was always going to happen due to safety. Realistically, 3% cut from actual fuel spikes. Those planes from TLV and DXB were already redeployed in other parts of the network allowing us to temporarily park the 757.

If it’s one thing our management is good at, it’s finding ways to take advantage of opportunities and make a profit. If there’s money to be made in FL, they’ll do it

Good to know we're at least a little bit profitable there. But even you can admit that there's no reason to put in a hub there.

Even if the loss of TLV/DXB caused the planes to be moved domestically the 757s were still parked. That tells you that there's no more profit to be made from those planes and it's cheaper to park/utilize them less. If fuel prices were lower, then they'd be using those planes.

And yes I'm glad our management team is profit focused, the proof is in the cutting of capacity when it's needed.

As much as I would love a hub in MCO, I doubt it makes financial sense. Not unless UA does all the flying for our JV partners. Maybe not even a hub, but a W pairing for the WBs. There is money to be made, but much more difficult compared to the rest of the network. I doubt the juice is worth the squeeze imo.

It sounded like the parking of the 757 was because the 777/787 can offer premium seating for our pax out of SFO/LAX. It didn’t sound fuel driven, but product driven. The fact that it’s horribly inefficient probably didn’t help its case

You guys fantasize about "Brooks Brothers blue" in DFW and publicly muse about market opportunities created less than 24 hours after the closure of an airline that provided over 7,000 jobs. Pretty wild stuff. Making the Delta stereotype look like nothing.

This feels like a reddit thread where there is a bunch of bots and trolls trying to **** everyone off. Hopefully any neutrals reading can see through it.

Where are the mods?

Username checks out.

Why? If you don’t think mgmt at every airline was making moves to capitalize on this weeks or months ago, you’re delusional. It’s business, and business doesn’t care about your sense of decorum, and the ruthless moves being made behind the scenes that are some kind of emotional trigger for you, are paying your profit sharing and ensuring your future job security. If that offends you, I’d get off the internet or find another line of work. Did you object when we launched Basic Economy with the sole purpose of attacking Spririt and the ULCCs? How about DAL and AA when they did the same? Managements goal was never to share the sandbox, it was to own it.

I have many friends at NK, some of which I helped get hired here, some went elsewhere, some rode it to the end on a gamble or fears of starting over and a false sense of hope. We do what we can to help those we can, but the business cycle never sleeps, not for a moment. Welcome to the industry if there is your first time seeing this. Yeah, it sucks for a lot of people, it will pass and they’ll move on, in the best hiring environment this has ever happened, in the history of this industry. I have a close friend who was 20+ years seniority there, just recently finished indoc at DAL. Like it or not, it’s cut throat and your employer succeeds on management and VPs who, if they shared your sense mourning for the other guy, would get left in the dust and we’d all be worse off, against the ones who “buy property when there is blood in the streets.” It’s because of those types (and our unions) the NK pilots have a place to land and start over, with good pay and benefits.

Cycle of life. Don’t think for a second our competitors wouldn’t pick us clean at a moments opportunity. At the end of the day we’re all cogs in the machine, we have zero influence on the direction of the ship, and all we can do is help each other out. At the moment, that means getting every NK pilot on property that wants a spot.

Hopefully ALPA steps up to the plate in a big way and helps these pilots out with some sort of preferential hiring. I really feel for the Spirit employees and hope they all land on their feet soon.

United ALPA has been doing that since Spirit announced the first furlough.

Because this is the pilot forum, not the management forum, and it's in poor taste. Could give a rats ass about the rest of your ranting.

Spirt not only made money but had the highest margins of any carrier in the US at 10%-15% for a decade hubbing in FL.

The legacies don't have the cost structure of a ULCC and as such wouldn't be able to accomplish the same though.

You are correct that the vacation market just does not allow legacies to make money, MCO is basically a loss leader for all intents and purposes, same as LAS. You sell the business traveler high priced corporate paid tickets all year and they redeem those points to take the family to Disney.

Well stated! This is a vicious industry, like it or not!! The adage of “you’re not a real airline pilot until you’ve been furloughed, bankrupt or divorced” is a pretty accurate statement. I’m two out of the three so it’s a pretty good batting average. I know I’m gonna sound like the crusty old guy, but people in their 20s and 30s have no idea what this industry was like 30 years ago. Be thankful for what you have and prepare for the proverbial “rainy day”, because it IS coming.

Spirit was profitable then relying on a lower wages and junior workforce. Growth means lots of guys at the low end of the pay scale and can only grow so much as a percentage of the network. And then yes the cost structure of Spirit didn’t make sense anymore.

Vacation markets are low revenue and the seats there should be kept to a minimum to fill those points redemptions. An important part of the network still.

Lol. Brooks Brothers Blue was mine and if you don’t know how to read sarcasm then you need to ease up the lacing on your New Balance shoes. Everyone knew that merger proposal was a joke.

So many pearl clutchers on here. You think these discussions aren't happening in the board rooms of every airline in America right now?

correct me if I’m wrong. but even if a customer pays with their points for a flight to a vacation market the airline still profits from that…The credit card company has to pay the airline for that.

Which is the reason Airline analysts even say that with out the credit cards carriers like American would be not make a profit.

Spirit: Free Membership!
 

To every Spirit Airlines pilot and flight attendant who woke up this weekend without the job they had yesterday.

You didn't fail. The system failed you.

Here's what I know after 60 years in aviation — a furlough or a shutdown doesn't define your value. Your skills, your judgment, your professionalism in the cockpit and the cabin? Those don't expire.

That's why we’re offering every former Spirit Airlines crew member a FREE one-year membership to First Class Leaders.

First Class Leaders is a pilot and aviation professional community built around leadership, CRM, emotional intelligence, and career development — the skills that make great aviators even better and help you land your next opportunity with confidence.

Join us at join.firstclassleaders.com and use SPIRIT2026 for a FREE year of full access.

No cost. No catch. Just a community that's got your six.

You've earned your wings. Let's make sure the industry knows it.

Bert Botta — Retired Airline/Corporate Captain, Aviation Ghostwriter

The difference is it’s not being discussed in plain sight in front of the pilots that just lost their jobs. I think if you were in their shoes you’d feel differently.

LAS and MCO aren't just for points redemptions. Those are by far the two biggest convention/trade show/business meeting destinations in the world. Tons of corporate travel, but the yields stay low because of the sheer capacity thrown at those airports. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Lots of conventions -> Lots of hotel rooms -> Lots of airline seats -> Low prices/yields -> Lots of conventions.

I certainly wouldn't go on an airline message board where airline things are discussed and get mad when people discuss airline things.

The fact no other airline on here has started a similar thread should tell you something…Judge is 100% correct.

surprised he didn’t ask to have the Spirit sub forum removed first.