CAL System Bid
 

The standing system bid page FINALLY shows IAH 787 CA/FO positions. Could the mother of all bids be upon us? :rolleyes:

I sure hope so. Would you please let uu UAl guys know and post it when it comes out.

Thanks.

See this thread:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...t-i-quote.html

Hardly a MOAB...more like a MK-76. Good to see all the furloughees finally being brought back.

just like the guys recalled on the last bid!

True. I'm sure none of those guys will be waiting out by the mailbox for their recall letter to show up.

I'm glad everyone is recalled...except for Zaka. He is a peckerhead.

Sure glad I got excited for nothing. This bid is a reduction bid. Unbelievable. The incredible shrinking airline persists...

Look at the other side of this....hiring during the worst economy in decades. UPS furloughed (why is a different topic) and we recalled/ need to hire a few. It is a start in the right direction.

I HOPE the furloughs get a class date asap and that we get a few UA's on property as well.

The company always said there was going to be 180 vacancies. There are 145. Not that far off. I hate the way the airline is staffed, but for now there is nothing we can do about it.

All the CAL furloughs have a vacancies. Now we need to get the UA guys back and a JCBA.

Reduction bid? How?

Happy that there will finally be recalls, but dissapointed in the way this bid turned out.

It looks to me like they won't really be backfilling the 787 positions. This bid is probably just to get a training plan started for who's-who on the 78 and recalls/COLA returns.
They're going to train the 787 guys starting in the spring and then send them back to their previous aircraft until the deliveries arrive in the 3rd qtr. (at the earliest) So its my guess that the recalls will bolster the staffing on the current fleet types (since recalls are supposed to start training in Nov.) and they'll use the spring 2011 system bid to actually back fill the 787 vacancies.

Another reason for the lower number of vacancies on this bid is the cancellation of the furlough mitigation LOA. There were around 60 leaves of absence, 60 reduced flying awards and an estimate of 100 furloughs saved by the scheduling changes of the LOA. Now that it will no longer be in effect, that will 'count' for another 150-ish vacancies filled.

The reduced flying portion of the LOA ended at the completion of the March 2010 bid month. Both the original 18-month RF (Oct 2008 - Mar 2010) and the 6-month RF (Oct 2009- Mar 2010) offered last summer have ended. These positions were already taken into account with the last bid in May.

I'm convinced MOAB is a myth passed down from generation to generation of airline pilots, much like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster.

lol! :)

I was in ground school and George Fox stated 180 vacancies next bid.

That's probably the minimum amount of pilots that we need but CAL mgmt must cringe at having to pay UAL furloughees their last pay rate AND medical benefits for the first 6 months. So the bid was most likely delayed while they figured out how to make things work with 40 less pilots.

I think they will go as long as they possibly can without bringing on any additional pilots.

Even when we get a JCBA, I bet there will be target dates for the implementation of the work rules on the CAL side of the house so that they can stretch out the hiring required to make up for the staffing increase.

.............

I hope I'm wrong too. For the SLI and it would be nice to see Tilton's victims back in a cockpit.

There is a rumor floating around that some of the senior UAL furloughees have been contacted......

That one stays in the rumor mill for now. It"s definitely too coarse for consumption, at least at the moment! The furloughees have certainly been contacted lately but that was from the MEC and the company's furlough coordinators, and that was in reference to finding outside jobs...

What do you mean?

Complete RUMOR!

I know some guys at the top of that list....no call.

I am near the top of the list and there have been no letters or calls.

And I wouldn't expect there to be any letters or calls to United pilots until Continental manpower planning finishes the bid, awards the positions, contacts our furloughees to see if they are coming back, and then determines how many positions they have left to fill.

As I said before, just running the combined numbers from this bid and the last bid, IF all our furloughed pilots return, that will leave unfilled vacancies after this bid is awarded. According to those pesky "rumors" again, the company expects only about 70-80 of our furloughed pilots to return (have always questioned why they know this or how they come up with this number, esp. in this economy). If that is true, then there could be more opportunities for more of our furloughed United brothers and sisters.

Since you are on a voluntary furlough, would that play a part? Obviously this is academic at this point since it is clearly an incorrect rumor that anyone has been contacted. That leads to another question, I assume other UA guys are on a voluntary furlough so are they contacted in seniority order for any vacancies or is it the involuntary guys only?

Even if every one of our guys returns that still means at a minimum 12 UAL guys should be extended the chance to return to work at CAL. 15 vacancies in May, 145 now is 160 total with 148 furloughed. At a minimum the top 12 UA guys on furlough have (or should have) the chance at a training date.

The staffing min numbers set the vacancies on this bid at 133. 133 + 15 = 148.

Strange coincidence? Maybe. While I hope we staff the maximum and return as many pilots to work as possible, CAL mgmt is not magnanimous.

Of course, there is the rumor that they are anticipating 1/2 of the CAL furloughs to bypass. Also swirling around in the mix is how many on COLA will choose to extend (and convert to a more punitive LOA)?

So while we may bring some UAL furloughs over, I'm not sure I would set a 'minimum' number just yet.

I think that is actually a problem. Now the following statement has nothing to do with goodwill, etc. But buy allowing UAL furloughs to be hired on I can see some negative consequences to the CAL bottom line. CAL will pay out of its coffers the last years pay of the UAL pilots, including all during indoc and training while they are not producing, medical, etc, training and providing types if necessary and including them in the pool of profit sharing. Something to think about. Glad they will be part of the combined company, but I see it only as an act of goodwill. I see no return and actually the same pilots that take the offer may still complain that they MAY be integrated below the CAL furloughs that have just been recalled on paper. Flame away :p

A lot of us who have been furloughed twice are very unhappy with UALALPA. If there is any concern among CALALPA of being pushed around by the larger UALALPA after integration, any goodwill shown by CALALPA toward us would result in many of us being more loyal to CALALPA.
A few burning issues:
1) C2003 increased pilot flying hours by ~20%, leaving a lot of us on the streets for an extra couple of years.
2) Unlimited 70 seat RJs.
3) No longevity credit for furlough time.
4) The post-BK bond distribution. Those still on the street at the time of distribution received nothing.
There are more; those are just the ones that come to mind at this time.

I'll refrain from commenting publicly on SLI and what I expect UALALPA to do to those of us still on furlough.

I see no return and actually the same pilots that take the offer may still complain that they MAY be integrated below the CAL furloughs that have just been recalled on paper. Flame away :p[/quote]

So an 11 year United pilot that goes to the bottom of Continentals list should waive his rights to be integrated into the combined list? Really? The new "United" will be paying for any additional cost associated with hiring a furloughed United pilot, not CAL ALPA. I'll self censor and stop there....

Hey Joe Blow quit knocking your scalp to come up with such bullchit. Ever thought to match Smisek's commitment to no base salary until the company turns a profit? Consider it you "sorry self"!! You're probably thinking that somehow you are a burden on the company coffers as well, don't you?

edit...this was posted by me and the following was sent by coto (the original reply by coto didnt have the entire quote, so the reply showed my response as his, FWIW)

So an 11 year United pilot that goes to the bottom of Continentals list should waive his rights to be integrated into the combined list? Really? The new "United" will be paying for any additional cost associated with hiring a furloughed United pilot, not CAL ALPA. I'll self censor and stop there....[/quote]

My response:

Where the *&*( did I say that? The final SLI has nothing to do with the accepting of this offer. The latest CAL statements imply that the recalled CAL furloughs may well be considered active prior to the SLI. Since there are no UAL recalls, it really doesnt matter if you have 11 years or 21 years, if you arent on property, then you arent on property. Not for us to decide and my statement had nothing to do with SLI. My comment was that there may be UAL pilots who decide to take the goodwill job given to them from CAL, not UAL. But also in the same breath be unhappy that they MAY be placed below ACTIVE RECALLED CAL PILOTS. If I had 11 years at UAL and I was furloughed Id be ****ed too. But I wouldnt blame the CAL guys, no matter their seniority. 12 years here can get you 756 Captain.

Wow. What a bunch of dribble. I have not read where paying the UAL pilots' training, medical, profit sharing, etc does not come directly from the CAL bottom line as mentioned in a prior post. Me a burden on the company? Smisek's no base salary? Your "sorry self"? Put your coctail down and go to bed.

Sorry to see you so choked up. Have you read it's coming from CAL bottom line someplace? So what if it is coming from CAL bottom line? Think the company is going to be reporting a mother of all losses in the quarter after the recalls? Will it so dreadfully hurt your profit sharing potential? As a matter of fact pilots' training, medical, profit sharing should be extended to all new pilots from day one, not 6 months later. So now you're promoting the less that desirable experience you had when you were hired?

Dude, it's going to be one company, United Airlines, and by the time recalls of UAL pilots hit the property it will be just that! One company.

I understand your post and my initial post was in response to someone mentioning exactly what I did. I really dont care if you agree or not. Its a forum. Ideas get passed around. I didnt rubberstamp anything. I just acknowledged the other aspects of the agreement that were addressed by a previous post. But right now, we are two companies. And until its done its not done. You dont have to act like an ass with your juvenille remarks. The offer to UAL furloughed pilots is a 100% act of goodwill. Maybe goodwill is the wrong term. Because who knows what was given up for it? But to act like it is just shifting pilots around is not accurate. And to act like it does not come from the Continental bottom line, but from some future mother company is information that I have not seen. You bet newhires should have medical, btw, when United and Continental become one company.

DEFINITELY the wrong word. It makes you sound like a pr!ck.

I assume that you're referring to the PID (policy initiation date), not the SLI. Two different things. PID is defined by ALPA as: The date on which the respective MEC Chairmen and the Executive Council determine that a reasonable probability of a merger being consummated exists or the date on which the Executive Council determines that a reasonable probability of a merger being consummated exists, whichever is earlier. Seniority list integration procedures will commence on the Policy Initiation Date.

If you're suggesting that a reasonable probability of a merger being consummated does not yet exist, you would have a valid case for a blanket stapling of UAL furloughees. However, I doubt that case could be made in court.

Andy, I sure as heck didnt say anything to sound like a prick. So I am sorry if it sounds that way. I am sure that no UAL guy will take the offer.

As to the rest of your post, point taken. However I see no other word to use to replace goodwill. Either it is 100% goodwill or one of the groups gave something up for it. No one, and I mean NO ONE, does anything in this business for ****s and giggles. CAL could easily hire 50 guys that have just been laid off from Comair or from a thousand other unemployed professional pilots for $100 less an hour. We are two companies right now. I assume no furloughed UAL pilot will take the offer and simultaneously complain that they, with 9 to 90 years, will be placed behind any CAL pilot- as all CAL pilots have been recalled on this bid. And not just recalled on paper, but actually filling the ridiculous staffing we have suffered since 911- 9 years ago. Call me a prick, I dont care, but this is a business. And I dont see UAL guys racing to offer SFO or LAX slots to our guys as a trade. One good quarter and all of a sudden we are a merger of equals. We can all sing Kumbayah, but this is a business. The word from the team is that CAL pilots recalled on this bid will be considered active for purposes of SLI and those currently furloughed at UAL will not. Now I too would be ****ed if I was UAL. There has to be a line with career expectations. And decisions made in bankruptcy court to ground half your narrowbody fleet doesnt give one the argument to say that half your seniority list is now closer to widebody positions. Too many people remember the UAL TORQUE campaigns and "brain surgeon" comments. This is a business and I hold nothing against any other pilot for fighting for every dime.

Maybe 'pr!ck' was too harsh? I don't know, but that's what you sounded like to me. The entire tone of your posts make you sound like someone who hasn't been in this industry very long. Either that or you're VERY receptive to the 'message' of management. For example, you use the term 'goodwill' to describe the agreement to hire furloughed UAL pilots at their previous payrate. That agreement was made in a negotiation between U&C ALPA and U&C Mgmt....OF COURSE mgmt felt like they got something out of it! If CAL Mgmt made that offer OUTSIDE of any negotiation then I might agree with you (MIGHT...not sure). Question? If you get a pay raise in the JCBA will you consider THAT to be goodwill on behalf of mgmt too? Then you go on to bemoan the costs that will be incurred by the pain of having to pay these UAL furloughees their previous rates! Just how much money do you think that is??? Good grief rocket, it's a fly fart in a hurricane to CAL OR UAL!!!!! Beyond that, why do YOU care?

Now, your point that CAL could just hire off the street for less pay.... If they did that, what would happen to THOSE newhires when the SLI is completed? I won't predict the outcome/fate of the furloughee integration (CAL or UAL), but NO MATTER WHAT, any newhire WILL go below ANY current active or furloughed UAL or CAL pilot. So, CAL will hire, train, and then furlough these newhires because they will HAVE to bring back any current furloughees! Still sound like goodwill to you? Sounds like practical, good business sense to me.

As far as your SLI predictions. I think that they are nothing short of a guess, and are not helpful. The process is ongoing and I feel confident that both committees will come to reasonable, sound decisions on most issues. The remainder will go before the arbitration panel. I also have confidence in that process, so I will await their decisions. In the meantime we should ALL avoid needless and reckless pot stirring. THE SINGLE most important thing that both groups should be focusing on is the JCBA. We MUST ensure that this CBA is done right. We will each have a different perspective on how it fixes past wrongs since we don't have a common history, and we will definitely disagree on the 'merging' of our workrules and QWL provisions. BUT -- we BOTH are on the same sheet of music when it comes to the future! We must make sure this CBA protects our careers and QWL!

IMO, posts like yours damage our collective unity by reviving the 'my airline is better than yours' arguments. Guess what guys? UAL will be GONE. CAL will be GONE. Lets focus on the NEW airline and how it will provide for our families.

deleted duplicate post.....

I'm no expert, so take what I think with a grain of salt. Once we merge and have a SLI, all the furloughs will not be rushed back to fly. This merger is not about expansion, it's about consolidaiton. I expect many UAL and CAL aircraft parked after the merger, but not all at once, of course. I expect more pilots on the street after the merger than the total from both airlines before the merger. CAL is recalling some because they never needed to furlough in the first place. That, and new aircraft deliveries.

Hopefully, the retirements in 2013+ will help keep us junior guys flying. If we give up scope, expect thousands of "conited" pilots on the street applying for new hire jobs at the regionals. :eek:

October 1 is approaching fast so we will find out soon if these 2 companies are to become one. Then you can stop worrying about "goodwill".