Information for pilots
 

For all Continental and United pilots: Please visit www.savecalpilots.com for factual information the union won't tell you about. We are not a forum.

Thank you

This reads a lot like it is from some union busters trying to divide the pilot group. That is why they won't give their names. I could be wrong, but I don't see it doing much good.

O.K. I read through most of this poorly organized site's ramblings and found a few very valid points.

For one, that the IAH LEC 171 S.T.'s op-ed piece via the "Magenta Line" is a clear violation of ALPA code of ethics.

I think we were all able to make that quantum leap in logic on our own. So if we take that as established fact, what is the purpose of this "informational" website and why not just post all these little tidbits on existing discussion forums?

Is it a move to provide an outlet for opinion? If so, that exists here.
Is it a move to decertify ALPA at CAL? If so, you are going to need to disclose some identities and show a better way a.s.a.p.
Is it a move to attempt to stop the merger? If so, you are going to loose.

Looks like just the musings of a malcontent or a wannabe site administrator.

From that website:


And:


Hmmm...how about the MEC resolution which passed giving the go-ahead for JP to run for First VP during the BOD? I guess technically leaving out information is not the same as changing information, but it sure seems it would be nice to have more information such as this.

Actually, many people's actions in this entire mess appear to be a violation of ALPA's Code of Ethics if you ask me, starting with the conduct of the IAH reps at the BOD. The owners of the website are doing the same thing and are in violation of the ALPA Code of Ethics as well.

It looks like the psychotic rantings of John Ringel. No fact or explanation will suffice.

My thoughts exactly. Notice the names of those who've commented? Probably synonymous with those who created the site and posted the "facts". :rolleyes:

Without proof its just more of the same untrustworthy drivel.

Well, you should say starting with JB and followed by IAH.....to be exact.

Who gave the Unibomber access to the internet? Seriously, this reads like the Unibomber manifesto.

My thoughts exactly. The second rumor addressed in the Oct 25 Magenta Line specifically addresses a blast mail these guys sent to many CAL pilots.

Didn't bother to read it, won't waste my time. My take on life (and LC170 and 171) is show me the product. I will withhold judgment on my representation until I see the product produced for me to vote on in the form of a JCBA. Until that time I don't give a flying **** who gets along with who, who hates who, or anything else. All I care about is the final product. Give me a TA I feel compelled to vote yes on that provides time off, industry leading pay and benefits, job security, and I don't have to work until I die.

Our sentiments exactly. Problem is none of us understand how this will really play out. Try this on for size...

Our JNC completes the JCBA by December. No arbitration. The reps finally get a hold of it to read. For how long, who knows. Perhaps a day or so. Jay Pierce starts the sell campaign to the reps, not the pilots. The vote ends up being 7 to 2 to send it to the pilot group, (IAH reps vote against). The JCBA is sent to the joint pilot force for ratification. Jay Pierce and Wendy Morse start the joint selling campaign to all the pilots. Pilots have 10 days to vote on the JCBA (Why does this sound familiar?) Hopefully we will get 30 days like it says in the ALPA CBL's. Votes are counted and the results are?????

Does any of this sound familiar?

I don't want to work till I die. Of all the times in our lives, we pilots have something the company wants...to realize the "synergies" of this merger. What price will the company pay for these synergies? They just earned 800 mill plus for God's sake. They have the money for all our needs and then some. Will our union exploit this "need" to its fullest extent? History has shown us the union will cave. Scope will be sold. Retirement will be history. We will all work till we die. Those junior pilots will be lucky to see the left seat.

Me personally....I will vote no just to vote no. I don't need a reason because I know the union won't use this leverage to its fullest extent.

whatever
 

And there folks is the reasoned thought (TIC) of the guy behind that ridiculous website. What a douche.

Unfortunately, I know even rational pilots who will vote NO just to vote NO because "you never vote YES on the first contract because if management agreed to it it must be good for them." By that logic we would never ever, ever get TAs.

If you're gonna fire off a "No" shot, at least aim at a specific target(s). Otherwise you're just wasting your ammo.

A specific target? Okay. How about the fact that not one rep has seen any of the completed sections of the contract, specifically R/I and scope. What is Jay Pierce hiding? Back in December 2009, we had an R/I section which included at least some chance for those of us who lost half our pensions to at least recoop part of what we lost. We are hearing rumors that entire section has now been scrapped. It has been reduced to nothing/ no improvements. The lawyer during the recent town hall said they couldn't show the reps the completed sections because it would open up a can of worms. In other words, they would waste valuable time rehashing completed sections. Seems to me you want this JCBA as close to perfect as possible. The time to ask for everything lost is now, not later. I just don't get the rational behind waiting for the reps to see all the completed sections. You either use the time now, or waste it later. I know the UAL pilots are also hurting as far as their pensions. It's time to bring back improvements to the pensions we have earned and ensure those junior pilot will have a pension to look forward to. Hearing the R/I section was scrapped will cause me to vote no. That doesn't mean I won't look at it. The company wants synergies? I want my damn pension restored. THE LOAN IS DUE! Also...BULLET POINTS = NO VOTE

Those are pretty strong words calling someone a douche. Thanks. What are you doing to help the situation? Nothing.

I stay educated. I verify if possible what I hear. I talk to my reps. And I do not spread unsubstantiated drivel or half truths with a personal agenda.

When you make a defintive statement saying I am doing nothing without even knowing who I am, you show what a true putz you really are.

Leaving out all the information again.

First of all, the reps will see the contract in full contract language (just like we will) before it is voted on by the MECs. They can analyze it to death and reject it if they so choose.

Second, where on the conference call or any place has it been said that the R/I section was scrapped? You HEARD it was scrapped? Was this from the guy in the next stall in the restroom?? Another anonymous source.

The JNC is given its mandate by the MEC and by the RLA to negotiate with the company. They have their directions and instructions. The JNC and MECs have laid out what needs to happen. Every little word, sentence and punctuation mark cannot be negotiated by 20+ individuals every single time a proposal is put on the table. As with the pay issue concerns of the United people, one side could continually hold up negotiations. That's why we have a JOINT NC. They decide what to propose and agree to based on OUR needs.

The MEC and YOU will make a final determination if it is good enough when you see the language. Jay doesn't vote when the MEC decides to send out the TA or not.

Your basing your diatribe on rumors? Why not attach your name to this document then we can see who is really running around spreading rumors and innuendos?

Seems like this entire subject is rumors as of now.

See, you have a specific target then (although let's not put the cart before the horse, let's see what the final product actually is). Vote no to provide direction to the renegotiated contract and back it up with a strike vote of yes.

As to what is Jay Pierce hiding? Like him or hate him right now he is hiding nothing. He knows what the expectations of the group are vis a vis scope so it is going to be really hard to hide behind any TA that doesn't strengthen scope. That's not some tidbit that can easily be slipped past us in a section that nobody looks at. I'm not a loyalist to Pierce, any of the reps, or even ALPA but I also don't believe in lynching anyone til I see a reason to get out the rope and start tying the knot. I'm not advocating blind faith in any of the above entities but you can't advocate blind hatred either. Show me the product.

It's make ready, take aim, and then fire. We can make ready. Hell we can take aim, but let's hold our fire until we have a reason to shoot and something to shoot at. Show me the product.

Unfortunately, here at CAL, it's almost always been fire, aim, and ask questions later no matter the consequences. A rep or MEC officer can't be in office more than a month and people are calling for heads to roll. Someone here is always ticked off whoever is in office and willing to burn the house down when their view isn't the majority. I'm glad they do, but why would any pilot at CAL be willing to step up to represent or help this pilot group with all the burning in effigy that almost every volunteer gets? Accuse, accuse, accuse and hope something sticks is the standard play.

I came from a small-jet carrier and never did I see the childish behavior amongst adults that I see among the supposed "real" pilots here at a major.

When will a rep ever promise something and actually deliver it? There are those of us who say nothing and accept our fate. Others want more. Can you blame those who speak out for wanting more from an organization which has a spotty record of representating? Thank God for those who do speak out. Maybe by exposing the flaws, we will end up with a better contract. If you want to sit there like a couch potato, go ahead. You will have no one to blame but yourself.

No couch potato here when it comes to my career. I to go meetings, read all the information that comes out, ask the questions that need to be asked. I am not naive at all when it comes to the workings of the union. It is one thing for pilots to seek out information and challenge our representatives to make sure their views are heard. It is something completely different when all the other Oliver Stone conspiracy BS is thrown about at every opportunity by certain pilots at CAL.

Let me be clear, and to use an analogy: I don't think these pilots are any less "patriotic" or sincere than others in their desires for all CAL pilots to come out ahead. It is the methods and the words that are used which I found counterproductive and detrimental to our goals.

or little vinny scotto :rolleyes:

Glad to hear you aren't a couch spud. I'm not either. You say you challenge the reps with your views? I do the same thing. What I find interesting, and unfortunately amusing is the double talk I get from the reps. They sound like they really care, but in the end they really don't. No answer is more like it. It is then, I feel, the nail was hit on the head. Why hasn't the CAL MEC allowed the LEC reps a chance to look at the completed sections of the contract? What is the union hiding? Another contract 02, onlt worse? At this point, I don't know who to believe anymore.

Man....
I'll take Scotto's ranting ANY DAY over Ringel's.....that's a fact.

I hear what you're saying but they are two peas in the same pod and I can just about assure you they collaborate in their uh.......communications.

Who are these two guys you speak of?