1,437 UAL Pilots still on the street...nuff said.

2172 Strong

 

Unfortunately, that's the name of the game. One would be very naive to think that the sole reason for the current battle over the 747 carve-out is solely because the UAL MEC thinks the 747 should pay more than the 777. Again, One would be very naive to think that the attempted 747 carve-out is because the UAL MEC thinks that the 747 should pay more than the 777. It's an attempt at a seniority grab and they are obligated to pursue said feeble attempt. It's not personal.

The root of the problem is what is personal:
"While this has been advertised as a merger of corporate equals, that does not make it a merger of pilot groups with equal career expectations. The equities that each pilot group brings to the table are what they are, and attempts to manipulate those equities through the JCBA process are fundamentally flawed and disadvantageous to every pilot on both properties who desire the best JCBA possible."-W Morse

The "Expectations" of the UAL pilot group prior to and after the merger announcement seem to have changed drastically. As a CAL pilot, it is my understanding that the UAL pilot group could only had 1 expectation. That expectation was akin to some fat Wh@rE perfumed-up and sold, by pimp Tilton, to whoever would lay with her. Unfortunately, it was CAL instead of USAir to submit to Tilton's pathetic proposition. Now UAL has started re-writing history. And the CAL pilot group is really regretting our decision to fraternally hire UAL furloughees, instead of negotiating something in exchange.

The sad part is that the attempted 747 carve-out would primarily only help the very Sr UAL pilots. With UAL furloughees shortly coming to CAL, I think it would have been much more prudent to foster unity and get an agreement on not picking-up open time to hasten their recall. Instead they poisoned the well early and who knows what happens with regard to open time once all 148 of our furloughees are employed over the next few months.

The UAL MEC's arrogance is unbelievable. I hope we can return to civility before too much damage has been done. For now, we'll just sit back and eagerly await the "career expectations" debate. The CAL pilot group, corporate America and the Arbitrators will probably be more interested in this century. May 2, 2010 has been the only good news you guys have had, with regard to "career expectations" in almost a decade.

 

And it's interesting to see that the UAL members of the JNC felt this was appropriate, too, when they helped draft the proposal. Oh, and CA Morse deemed it acceptable, as well, before she changed her mind. Then again, it is an MEC chair's prerogative to change one's mind.

 

So why not get the absolute best JCBA we can, and leave any and all gains for either side OUT of the SLI arguments?

That way, the argument you make about UAL's career expectations can be made without any gains that are made in the JCBA.

Instead, it seems that CAL wants to use the JCBA 'to paint the entire picture'. Oh, BUT, they only want to use it once they force lower pay onto certain aircraft. CAL CERTAINLY wouldn't want to 'paint the entire picture' with a JCBA that pays the 360+ seat airplane more than any other.

LEAVE THE JCBA OUT OF THE SLI ARGUMENTS.

 

This is NOT CAL's problem. While we want you back on property, we aren't willing to be thrown under the bus to appease the UAL MEC. Sorry...............

 

Honestly speaking, I don't think it wasn't such a big deal until your MEC made it so; the JNC had already agreed. IMHO, career expectations are clearly and overwhelmingly in CAL's favor and I welcome that debate. I think the wide-body ratio is clearly in your favor. But sans a merger with CAL, you guys go to USAir's payrates or keep your own. The arbitrators and everyone else on the planet knows this. Wendy Morse and the UAL MEC departed controlled flight over this issue. So it's just a little too important to them for us to let it go. Looks like the line is drawn and I'm ok with that. We probably need to get the fight started, so we can get it over with.

 

Sure am glad I looked this morning so 320 fumes could predict my future.

 

Agreed, to a point. However, it makes no sense to invest negotiating capital in an airframe with a limited future. American is the only US carrier that doesnt band pay (and even they do with the 767/A300).

Only if it's a 747-400, which they don't make anymore. If it's an A350 or 787, which we had training slots for on our last bid, it makes more sense to put the highest pay rate on what your fleet will look like. Think of it this way, what would you say about negotiating a higher pay rate for the DC-10 than the 737-900? Doesn't do us any good, does it? Leave the rate for the 747-8 and A380 off the contract and let us negotiate them later, when they have them on order.

Let's face it, this is all about the SLI, and even then it might not have an effect.

 

You really should predict you own. Glen Tilton and the UAL BoD espoused a strategy to merge at all cost years ago. Surely, you don't refute that? You haven't had a new aircraft in almost a decade. You don't have any aircraft on order until 2016, therefore you don't have any aircraft on order. I couldn't predict your future, only that it was not yours; it was CAL's or USAirway's. You should be thankful.

The only people having problems predicting the future of a UAL pilot, is the UAL pilot. I would have quit years ago.

 

How long have you been at cal, you never quit that place when it was the worst? They did a great job of turning it around for now. This industry is just too tough to guess where anyone will end up. I have no more control over my airline future than you do with yours.