luv757

Who knows if this is winnable or not. I think this whole exercise on Jeffy's part had a few other data points he was interested in collecting.

Will ALPA stand up or roll over? It seems we have take a stand.

How unified is the pilot group? I think we demonstrated that we are unified.

Jeffy should be nervous.

sonnycrockett

Well said....


AMEN!

JetDaily

Here's the ultimate definition from your favorite source, Wikipedia:

conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other.

PERFECTLY STATED.

JD

SpecialTracking

I know i'm feeding the beast, but I have to ask. What would make Jeff and Glenn happier, maintain the relationship with ALPA or join with the likes of APA? What say you my sage of the mahogany office?

JetDaily

"feeding the beast?" "...sage of the mahogany office?" Whatever.

On the other question....who knows?! I really think they want the pilots of UAL to have a fair and equitable contract (obviously, according to THEIR definition of the same). However, they KNOW it must be about 5-10% north of the Delta standard at this point. It does not serve them well to have this dragged out much longer. As you and I both know, the so-called "synergies" will not fully be realized until the JCBA has been signed and the SLI is in place. I really don't think they care one way or the other about who represents the pilots of United. I must say, there is a lot of vitriole here about "Jeff and Glenn" as if they stay up late at night reading this crazy forum. ALPA wants there to be a lot of hatred toward these men. It is in the general make-up of most unions. That is, that the company (read, management) is the enemy (bad) and the workers have the right to dictate to the company not only how much money they should make, but indeed, how the company ought to be run.

Friend, I have been flying airplanes for over three decades. It is ALL I do. I have flown military, cargo, pax, night, day, tactical, line holder, reserve. I have been with more than a couple airlines and I have seen CEOs and upper mgt come and go. I am VERY pro-pilot and I sincerely hope the pilots of United get a truly fair and equitable contract and that they can live out what is left of their careers in happiness and contentment. But, I am afraid that is just not likely with ALPA having such a stranglehold on the United Pilots' careers.

Best,

JD

Botas

It is Saturday morning and I am still waiting for the union message highlighting the success of the picketing. We need to do a better job of keeping the troops informed.

gettinbumped

Holy crap!! We actually agree on something!! Mark the calendar.

Conflict of interest is a HUGE problem in ALPA with the regionals and the majors having diametrically opposed goals.

However, in THIS particular article by Swellbar, that isn't what he said. He said that the flying being done by UAL regionals isn't "outsourcing". This is uttterly ridiculous. It's the very definition of the act, which is what I was trying to hilight with my example.

You hate ALPA. I get it. I've got my own problems with ALPA as well, but at the end of the day ALPA to me really is UAL ALPA, and they have my full support as we try to navigate the tricky path of merging and contract talks.

With regards to the "us vs them" argument. I really do wish it weren't that way, but.... Historically, UAL management has taken us down that road. Greenwald was a mild exception, Patterson was a HUGE exception. We will see what this new management chooses to do. It's a good sign we haven't had to file for mediation yet. Unfortunately, the rumor out there is that the management proposal was CONCESSIONARY in every section. Now come ON. Put that on the table and you can assure yourself that it's going go stay "us vs them".

Cheers

fireman0174

Prior to the introduction of wide-bodies, flight attendants were part of ALPA. When these new planes arrived in the late 60s and early 70s, it was obvious that if ALPA wanted to properly represent the pilots, there would have to be a "separation" of the two groups. Soon there would be be more flight attendants than pilots considering the required staffing levels for wide-body airplanes. As a result, and I don't recall the exact process, pilots and flight attendants went their separate ways as far as union representation was concerned.

I believe that today ALPA is at a similar fork in the road. Pilots for a "major" airline and a "regional" airline have very different needs regarding representation. I do not think ALPA can "walk the fine line" to properly represent both at the same time. IMHO, there needs to be two separate unions, each more properly representing the needs of the different groups. Otherwise the two factions will constantly be at each other's throats, weakening ALPA for both groups.

Just one man's opinion.

SpecialTracking

Have to disagree with you on that one. I to have been flying planes for almost 30 years and have been around airlines my whole life. I can say that this airline is counterintuitive to what I was raised with. After living under a scorched earth policy at this airline, I think people are capable of thinking for themselves without ALPA's input. ALPA doesn't want to run it, but they don't want it run into the ground either.

I do agree with the conflict of interest aspect and feel that will eventually come to a head.

gettinbumped

All I can say is; "Amen"!

Wise words