Legacy UAL furloughees
01-09-2011, 06:25 PM
#11
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Me, Too
Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot
Please don't get me wrong..... I love my job, the planes I fly, and the folks I work with, but somewhere along the line, management has taken to screwing everyone so THEY can live like kings at OUR expense....
Ditto. I almost wrote this with my original reply.
Bill "Pat" Patterson ran United Airlines from 1934-1966. They were United's golden years. Why? In my opinion, because he wanted to run an airline, and he measured success in safety, satisfied customers, motivated employees, and a net profit. He wanted to fly airplanes and get people from A to B.
Sadly, since the mid 1960s, the business-school model has taken over virtually all of corporate America, the Government, and now, even the military.
In this school, reducing your costs is paramount, even if it destroys your customer base. That means outsourcing jobs to lower-cost 'network' associate companies, first domestically, and then internationally when the lower-tier of domestic is deemed 'not cost-effective.' When that becomes 'non-competitive,' allow the foreign workers to illegally occupy US territory and jobs with the de facto approval (non-intervention) of the US government. It means selling government assets and leasing them back, because while it is more expensive in the long-haul, it looks cheaper in a year-to-year budget. It means replacing enlisted personnel and doing former in-house work with contractors, who decide when you can open the base for business, take off, land, how much turn-time between sorties....
The real measures of success in today's business world are not the ideals of Pat Patterson, or even Keller or Bethune. It is stock price and total net worth of the company. I think that is called market capitalization? They perform 'business deals' that make Wall Street a twitter, and increases their market cap. Whether that will create a better product or service...or eviscerate the very people who once bought those products...is irrelevant. What is important is stock price, right now.
The real 'customer' at UAL seems to be the shareholders, and all the actions of management in the last 8 years I have seen have been to that end. Coincidentally, the Board of Directors rewards themselves with huge stock options. Since they own the majority of stock, they get the most votes...and no one can vote them out. So, they perform fiduciary magic tricks that make the stock prices rise and fall, so they can sell high, buy low, etc, etc. Sadly, passengers, airplanes, and the infrastructure that makes it work ("Employees") are viewed as an inconvenience associated with the operation.
Why else would men with NO experience in the airline business (ie, an Oil Man or Lawyer) be lauded as CEOs and Presidents of airlines? Because it is about big money. It certainly isn't about charisma or leadership.
They are, as my old flight commander liked to say, "Self-licking ice cream cones."
There are about 3 or 4 airlines I can think of where I would say "They care about air travel." The rest I think "Typical big-business with crappy service and fancy slogans telling me how great it is."
I don't think the problem is unique to UAL. I think it is endemic to America and most of the western world. Unless we are lucky enough to get a maverick who wants to do it "Old School," I don't hold out much hope. If you think about it, the modern world is not far removed from medieval Europe, with castles and serfs. The only difference is now the serfs have iPhones, mp3 players, and flat-screen TVs.
I'm proud to be a United pilot and I enjoy the job and the professionalism of most of the people I've met. I just wish the BOD felt the same way.
01-10-2011, 07:02 AM
#12
I love my job!
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: B757 Capt
Posts: 276
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
ewr:
Ditto. I almost wrote this with my original reply.
Bill "Pat" Patterson ran United Airlines from 1934-1966. They were United's golden years. Why? In my opinion, because he wanted to run an airline, and he measured success in safety, satisfied customers, motivated employees, and a net profit. He wanted to fly airplanes and get people from A to B.
Sadly, since the mid 1960s, the business-school model has taken over virtually all of corporate America, the Government, and now, even the military.
In this school, reducing your costs is paramount, even if it destroys your customer base. That means outsourcing jobs to lower-cost 'network' associate companies, first domestically, and then internationally when the lower-tier of domestic is deemed 'not cost-effective.' When that becomes 'non-competitive,' allow the foreign workers to illegally occupy US territory and jobs with the de facto approval (non-intervention) of the US government. It means selling government assets and leasing them back, because while it is more expensive in the long-haul, it looks cheaper in a year-to-year budget. It means replacing enlisted personnel and doing former in-house work with contractors, who decide when you can open the base for business, take off, land, how much turn-time between sorties....
The real measures of success in today's business world are not the ideals of Pat Patterson, or even Keller or Bethune. It is stock price and total net worth of the company. I think that is called market capitalization? They perform 'business deals' that make Wall Street a twitter, and increases their market cap. Whether that will create a better product or service...or eviscerate the very people who once bought those products...is irrelevant. What is important is stock price, right now.
The real 'customer' at UAL seems to be the shareholders, and all the actions of management in the last 8 years I have seen have been to that end. Coincidentally, the Board of Directors rewards themselves with huge stock options. Since they own the majority of stock, they get the most votes...and no one can vote them out. So, they perform fiduciary magic tricks that make the stock prices rise and fall, so they can sell high, buy low, etc, etc. Sadly, passengers, airplanes, and the infrastructure that makes it work ("Employees") are viewed as an inconvenience associated with the operation.
Why else would men with NO experience in the airline business (ie, an Oil Man or Lawyer) be lauded as CEOs and Presidents of airlines? Because it is about big money. It certainly isn't about charisma or leadership.
They are, as my old flight commander liked to say, "Self-licking ice cream cones."
There are about 3 or 4 airlines I can think of where I would say "They care about air travel." The rest I think "Typical big-business with crappy service and fancy slogans telling me how great it is."
I don't think the problem is unique to UAL. I think it is endemic to America and most of the western world. Unless we are lucky enough to get a maverick who wants to do it "Old School," I don't hold out much hope. If you think about it, the modern world is not far removed from medieval Europe, with castles and serfs. The only difference is now the serfs have iPhones, mp3 players, and flat-screen TVs.
I'm proud to be a United pilot and I enjoy the job and the professionalism of most of the people I've met. I just wish the BOD felt the same way.
Ditto. I almost wrote this with my original reply.
Bill "Pat" Patterson ran United Airlines from 1934-1966. They were United's golden years. Why? In my opinion, because he wanted to run an airline, and he measured success in safety, satisfied customers, motivated employees, and a net profit. He wanted to fly airplanes and get people from A to B.
Sadly, since the mid 1960s, the business-school model has taken over virtually all of corporate America, the Government, and now, even the military.
In this school, reducing your costs is paramount, even if it destroys your customer base. That means outsourcing jobs to lower-cost 'network' associate companies, first domestically, and then internationally when the lower-tier of domestic is deemed 'not cost-effective.' When that becomes 'non-competitive,' allow the foreign workers to illegally occupy US territory and jobs with the de facto approval (non-intervention) of the US government. It means selling government assets and leasing them back, because while it is more expensive in the long-haul, it looks cheaper in a year-to-year budget. It means replacing enlisted personnel and doing former in-house work with contractors, who decide when you can open the base for business, take off, land, how much turn-time between sorties....
The real measures of success in today's business world are not the ideals of Pat Patterson, or even Keller or Bethune. It is stock price and total net worth of the company. I think that is called market capitalization? They perform 'business deals' that make Wall Street a twitter, and increases their market cap. Whether that will create a better product or service...or eviscerate the very people who once bought those products...is irrelevant. What is important is stock price, right now.
The real 'customer' at UAL seems to be the shareholders, and all the actions of management in the last 8 years I have seen have been to that end. Coincidentally, the Board of Directors rewards themselves with huge stock options. Since they own the majority of stock, they get the most votes...and no one can vote them out. So, they perform fiduciary magic tricks that make the stock prices rise and fall, so they can sell high, buy low, etc, etc. Sadly, passengers, airplanes, and the infrastructure that makes it work ("Employees") are viewed as an inconvenience associated with the operation.
Why else would men with NO experience in the airline business (ie, an Oil Man or Lawyer) be lauded as CEOs and Presidents of airlines? Because it is about big money. It certainly isn't about charisma or leadership.
They are, as my old flight commander liked to say, "Self-licking ice cream cones."
There are about 3 or 4 airlines I can think of where I would say "They care about air travel." The rest I think "Typical big-business with crappy service and fancy slogans telling me how great it is."
I don't think the problem is unique to UAL. I think it is endemic to America and most of the western world. Unless we are lucky enough to get a maverick who wants to do it "Old School," I don't hold out much hope. If you think about it, the modern world is not far removed from medieval Europe, with castles and serfs. The only difference is now the serfs have iPhones, mp3 players, and flat-screen TVs.
I'm proud to be a United pilot and I enjoy the job and the professionalism of most of the people I've met. I just wish the BOD felt the same way.
01-10-2011, 10:06 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot
Please don't get me wrong..... I love my job, the planes I fly, and the folks I work with.........but somewhere along the line, management has taken to screwing everyone so THEY can live like kings at OUR expense. It certainly has taken a lot of the wind out of the sail. We hear a lot about dignity and respect, none of which we seem to be entitled to. When Gordon/Greg, and even Larry worked WITH us, it made for a great airline. I'm still trying to figure out how the BOD can bestow over $600,000 a year on Tilton to do NOTHING, yet those of us busting our rear ends aren't worth squat.
01-11-2011, 02:22 PM
#15
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: B747-400
Posts: 14
Well, thank you all for your thoughts.
While it is clearly terminally frustrating to be held captive in a seniority list that is tied to the likes of wall street wonder boys and girls of Whacker Drive in Chicago, it can be just as frustrating to see what has become of the operation from the outside as well. So I hear the comments loud and clear.
I'm still curious about SLI. What is the tentative time table for the integration?
While it is clearly terminally frustrating to be held captive in a seniority list that is tied to the likes of wall street wonder boys and girls of Whacker Drive in Chicago, it can be just as frustrating to see what has become of the operation from the outside as well. So I hear the comments loud and clear.
I'm still curious about SLI. What is the tentative time table for the integration?
01-11-2011, 02:45 PM
#16
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 8
2172 UAL Furloughees
Yes I do read these. Don't post much. Was hired in early 2000, I will only come back if nothing else comes along. I don't have any faith in UAL management or our union not to throw us under the bus as they already have before. I want to just wait and watch what happens. I hope I am wrong and it all comes out rosy. But so far it never has.
01-11-2011, 03:14 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Well said Xhooker. Cal's flt ops management is worse then the scumbag Fbo owner I worked for in my youth. It flat out disgusts me that it's footprint is going to be stamped on the collective backsides of the future Unical pilot group.
01-25-2011, 08:09 AM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 172
Nothing about recalls.... yet.
However, there was a vacancy bid today -
400 CAP - ord(2)
777 CAP - lax(6)
400 F/O - sfo(5)
777 F/O - lax(7)
Here's hoping that all the over 60 turds choke on their yogurt and metamucil so that things will move more quickly.
However, there was a vacancy bid today -
400 CAP - ord(2)
777 CAP - lax(6)
400 F/O - sfo(5)
777 F/O - lax(7)
Here's hoping that all the over 60 turds choke on their yogurt and metamucil so that things will move more quickly.
01-25-2011, 09:42 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
i have a source inside TK and she said they will be training in TK in the summer-- i guess someone just got hired or will be to be the new managing director there-- so the buzz is beginning-- any news will be discovered first at TK for preparation.
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