IPad coming July 1st?
06-26-2011, 04:40 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,888
Originally Posted by tozairport
Well, I probably got that from you perceived excitement over getting the Ipads. If that perception was wrong, my apologies. I just don't think that doing anything extra for the company, and getting and learning all of the features of an Ipad (so matter how simple it is), is in our best interest right now. How can they force or require me to carry one? They haven't trained me on it. It's not in my contract that I am required to carry it. If they want to save money by me carrying it, then they can pay me to carry it. It's just like this whole "integration training" debacle. They want us to do work for an unspecified amount of hours for only one hour of pay. I don't think so.
I understand that you don't pick up open time, fly extra trips, waive the contract, etc. That's the easy stuff. We need to examine every action that we do at work and ask ourselves, "is this really within the normal scope of my job?" If it isn't, then we should not be doing it. If that means sitting on our hands while watching things unravel, then so be it. It's not easy. We are people that like to get things done, sometimes to our detriment. But the company will not learn until they are being called on the carpet by CNBC, USA Yesterday, CNN, etc. I hate it. I hate operating this way. But I will not give one inch until this company starts to respect the sacrifices we all have given over the last 15+ years.
I understand that you don't pick up open time, fly extra trips, waive the contract, etc. That's the easy stuff. We need to examine every action that we do at work and ask ourselves, "is this really within the normal scope of my job?" If it isn't, then we should not be doing it. If that means sitting on our hands while watching things unravel, then so be it. It's not easy. We are people that like to get things done, sometimes to our detriment. But the company will not learn until they are being called on the carpet by CNBC, USA Yesterday, CNN, etc. I hate it. I hate operating this way. But I will not give one inch until this company starts to respect the sacrifices we all have given over the last 15+ years.
As for a requirement, it becomes pretty simple when the company gets something approved by FAA in writing and makes that approval part of a current manual revision, say the FOM, with said requirement. Does that mean we should roll over as a group? No. The union training committee needs to address this as well. In the end though, there is little you or I can do if the company gets the FAA to approve the requirement that we carry an iPad in place of our other manuals.
Besides, I'm still going to have to carry all my other gadgets with me anyway. You think I'd be crazy enough to use a company provided iPad to do my personal e-mails that are supposedly going to be accessible on the device? If anyone does that they are as stupid as those who pick up their phone on a day off and get junior manned.
06-26-2011, 07:53 AM
#62
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
You think I'd be crazy enough to use a company provided iPad to do my personal e-mails that are supposedly going to be accessible on the device? If anyone does that they are as stupid as those who pick up their phone on a day off and get junior manned.
I got called twice for junior manning last week (SFO A320 CAP), said no, and they still got both trips covered shortly thereafter by a couple of heroes.
06-26-2011, 08:46 AM
#63
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by tozairport
...How can they force or require me to carry one? They haven't trained me on it...
Originally Posted by tozairport
...It's not in my contract that I am required to carry it...
06-26-2011, 12:40 PM
#65
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
[QUOTE=Ottopilot;1014183]
No one said anything about online CBT for no pay.
However, the opinion that if something is not in a contract, it doesn't have to be done or complied with is naive. Ops manuals are regulatory in nature by virtue of their FAA approval. IPads would likely come with a small manual and a module included in annual CBT training for which one is paid...adequately or insufficiently is a separate argument.
But to think one does not have to comply with a regulatory "carry" requirement because it is not specifically listed in an employment contract is to risk similar as not carrying your medical when flying. While an IPad for manual purposes is not specifically in a contract nor an FAR, it would be regulatory in nature by FAA approval of the requirement in the ops manual.
Sorry to burst "group think."
Originally Posted by Old UCAL CA
Easy...ops manual + training
QUOTE]
Online CBT for no pay! The CAL way.
QUOTE]
Online CBT for no pay! The CAL way.
However, the opinion that if something is not in a contract, it doesn't have to be done or complied with is naive. Ops manuals are regulatory in nature by virtue of their FAA approval. IPads would likely come with a small manual and a module included in annual CBT training for which one is paid...adequately or insufficiently is a separate argument.
But to think one does not have to comply with a regulatory "carry" requirement because it is not specifically listed in an employment contract is to risk similar as not carrying your medical when flying. While an IPad for manual purposes is not specifically in a contract nor an FAR, it would be regulatory in nature by FAA approval of the requirement in the ops manual.
Sorry to burst "group think."
Last edited by Old UCAL CA; 06-27-2011 at 03:53 AM.
06-27-2011, 02:12 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
[QUOTE=Old UCAL CA;1014228]
No one said anything about online CBT for no pay.
However, the opinion that if something is not in a contract, it doesn't have to be done or complied with is naive. Ops manuals are regulatory in nature by virtue of their FAA approval. IPads would likely come with a small manual and a module included in annual CBT training for which one is paid...adequately or insufficiently is a separate argument.
But to think one does not have to comply with a regulatory "carry" requirement because it is not specifically listed in an employment contract is to risk similar as not carrying your medical when flying. While an IPad for manual purposes is not specifically in a contract nor an FAR, it would be regulatory in nature by FAA approval of the requirement in the ops manual.
Sorry to burst "group think."
Not all "ops manuals" are "APPROVED" by the FAA. Some are "ACCEPTED". And, some manuals have "APPROVED" sections, as well as "ACCEPTED" ones. And there IS a difference...
Originally Posted by Ottopilot
No one said anything about online CBT for no pay.
However, the opinion that if something is not in a contract, it doesn't have to be done or complied with is naive. Ops manuals are regulatory in nature by virtue of their FAA approval. IPads would likely come with a small manual and a module included in annual CBT training for which one is paid...adequately or insufficiently is a separate argument.
But to think one does not have to comply with a regulatory "carry" requirement because it is not specifically listed in an employment contract is to risk similar as not carrying your medical when flying. While an IPad for manual purposes is not specifically in a contract nor an FAR, it would be regulatory in nature by FAA approval of the requirement in the ops manual.
Sorry to burst "group think."
06-27-2011, 07:13 PM
#67
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
[QUOTE=Short Bus Drive;1014737]
Not all "ops manuals" are "APPROVED" by the FAA. Some are "ACCEPTED". And, some manuals have "APPROVED" sections, as well as "ACCEPTED" ones. And there IS a difference...
That's true. However, "approved" or "accepted" wasn't the point.
"Approved" or "accepted" still doesn't allow for a personal decision as a "silent form of protest" to not comply with a non-optional requirement. Wilfully ignoring procedures defined in either "approved" or "accepted" manuals will invite unwanted consequences...by the company of employment, the FAA, or both.
Originally Posted by Old UCAL CA
Not all "ops manuals" are "APPROVED" by the FAA. Some are "ACCEPTED". And, some manuals have "APPROVED" sections, as well as "ACCEPTED" ones. And there IS a difference...
"Approved" or "accepted" still doesn't allow for a personal decision as a "silent form of protest" to not comply with a non-optional requirement. Wilfully ignoring procedures defined in either "approved" or "accepted" manuals will invite unwanted consequences...by the company of employment, the FAA, or both.
06-29-2011, 05:57 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
from rumor mill . . .
". . . ipad 2's are being indefinitely delayed because, while the ipad 1 was tested for high altitude and temperature by NetJets a few months ago, the ipad 2 has not. So, it has been hung up indefinitely."
06-29-2011, 09:22 AM
#69
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by APC225
". . . ipad 2's are being indefinitely delayed because, while the ipad 1 was tested for high altitude and temperature by NetJets a few months ago, the ipad 2 has not. So, it has been hung up indefinitely."
The IPAD will have AOM 1&2, FOM, training bulletins, and CAL/UAL contract. Limited internet, CCS, WX, email, etc. The hope is for Jepps to be loaded onto the IPAD for use as a backup only. All from SA.
And the company is still looking for a November 1st SOC according to him.
06-29-2011, 09:25 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by APC225
". . . ipad 2's are being indefinitely delayed because, while the ipad 1 was tested for high altitude and temperature by NetJets a few months ago, the ipad 2 has not. So, it has been hung up indefinitely."
since there is no TSO on either ipad here is how it works...
each individual ipad must be tested (cost is about $200) per unit.
No less than two companies have popped up in recent months to perform the testing. A sticker is applied to the rear cover. Battery replacement will require the unit to be tested again.
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