Negotiating in Public
 

http://www.unitednegotiations.com/em...y_10-27-10.pdf

Does the company really think anyone would agree to this...94 seat RJ's REALLY?!?!?!

Sure, why not?

Ouch. If the bar was any lower it'd be 3 feet underground. Delta +1 & 250 95 seaters is the best they could bring to the table?

Pretty disgusting. $35/hr year one pay? Guess there's a reason he makes $10MM/year. :mad:

Disgusting. :mad:

To borrow from a coworker: Just Vote NO.

Oh come now. They will take those 250 94 seat small jets and destroy Southwest. That would free up growth flying for our narrow body fleet. More flying means more passengers which means more international flying. We all win. Team United.

I'd suggest everyone figure their pay at Delta + 1 after a one or two seat downgrade and/or furlough. That's what the 95 seaters will get you.

If it's still a raise for you - tell your MEC you'd like an opportunity to approve this.

And, by the way, any raise without work rules that actually cause said pay rates to be paid would be an anemic result at best.

PIPE

You don't have to figure anything.
Nobody is taking this low ball bs seriously.

Throw in a double breasted jacket and I'm sold!

Is this even a real proposal? Maybe somebodies idea of a bad joke.

United Airlines Negotiations

It is the company's attempt to negotiate in public by getting
public support/sympathy. Note the copyright United Airlines Inc.
The sad/funny thing is, what they're offering for an Airbus F/O
on reserve is about what is made by a garbage collector with some OT.
So not sure how that's going to get the public on their side.
Hopefully guys are saving up reserve savings to fight this whenever we're released.
Unfortunately, what is the likelyhood that the gov't will allow the largest
U.S. airline to walk? But we need to be ready. If we accept it, we deserve it.
Such absolute, utter bs.

Well I guess this explains why we didn't get a contract in October 2010! Jeff your talents aren't be realized. Please go to DC and use your negotiating prowess to solve the bipartisan debt gridlock. Holy bejesus I'm gonna crack another beer after reading this.

I would like to personally thank United Continental Holdings for doing more to unify the pilots of both pre-merger companies than ALPA could ever do on its own.

If United is anything, they're consistent. I think they did as much, maybe even more, in the 30 days before our strike in 1985 to unify the pilots than ALPA was able to accomplish.

There must be some typos or omissions in this document.

1. The scope section mentions 250 large regional jets with less than 95 seats, but for some reason they forgot to list those planes in Category D of the compensation section. Must have just been an oversight on management's part.

2. There was this talk about Delta + $1, but I think they typed wrong. Year one pay says $35.07/hr but I'm sure that has to be a mistake since Delta's year one pay is about $56/hr.

These are only a couple that I have found so far. I mean if I can see these typo errors come on. I guess someone from management needs to proof read for these glaring errors before they propose them. Otherwise, the ALPA negotiators might think this was a joke. :rolleyes::D

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%...erious_gif.gif


94 seat RJs?

757 dropped to 737 status?

Anyone who votes yes on this should just call ALPA and voluntarily put their name on the scab list.

Yep. We need to collectively put our big boy pants on. This is going to take a while to play out as there are a lot more cards to be thrown on the table. I would assume there will be an eventual return to court. The iron fist of threats/hostages followed by the Stockholm Syndrome of promises and growth will also rear it's ugly head.

Go to work, do your job, and relax.

It won't come to a vote....It would never get past the JNC first of all. Secondly, it wouldn't make it past either MEC; thirdly it wouldn't pass a memrat..

It's pretty much a joke...

BTW, only the CA rates are equal to DAL, the FO rates are well below current DAL book.

Put the UAL 2000, DAL 2001, SWA current book or the FDX current book on the table and work UP from there!

Mgmt is entitled to thier dream sheet as we are ours. Our dream sheet looks good and we will meet somewhere in the middle or closer to our side I assume. This is a perfect example of why we have yet to get a TA or anything close. The MECs are doing thier job and telling mgmt to show us the money. The biggest caveat is the 250k early out at the bottom. Let's try and split the group and get that 51% vote; let's hold the line guys.

This is the best thing Jeff and his group could have ever done, especially for the UAL guys.

In this proposal they have publicly shown they want concessions in ALL areas of the current contract. Yes there is a pay raise but as already mentioned it looks a lot like a pay cut or freeze in others (757/767 new hire)

No improvement in vacation pay
A cut in vacation days.
No improvement in sick list
Get rid of Standards Captains (pay cut)
More RJs and bigger ones at that.
$250,000. not enough, unless your 64 years old (of course your burning your sick list and not flying anyway).
I think you all get the point here.
This is a net loss contract!

Are these things "must haves" of management?
I thought we might avoid it but here comes a strike.

Did I forget to mention the cut in Dead head quality, middle seat pay? You have to be kidding me!

More hours of service....

This proposal just stinks!

No thanks!

Add the fact that Jeffro was quoted as saying we'd never get back to 2001 pay rates.
Let's see, with inflation that's actually 2001 pay -~20%, we'll never get back to.
If anyone thinks this isn't going to be a fight.........

What is extremely disappointing are the current "it's all about me" attitudes.
They are the guys that always seem to have an excuse why the group's position doesn't apply to them.
"I have kids" or "my payment is xxxx" or "my pension loss plus my divorce" etc. etc.
That was your decision. And it was your decision to join the group and be unified when you got hired.
Stand by your commitment.

Flew with a really cool guy the other day. He's losing his house and has a wife and 3 kids.
He had the perfect attitude. His basic logic was
"The commitment I made to my coworkers and the union is just like the commitment I've made to my wife and kids.
We adjust to make it work. That has nothing to do with failing in those commitments. If I break the one with union,
I might as well also ditch my family and steal their money. It's the same moral and ethical failure."

I trust that both MECs know better than to send anything like this turd to membership for ratification. If the MEC becomes so myopic that they would even consider this as a CBA (which I don't think they would), then it's up to each and every one of us to thank them for their service before flooring the recall resolution.

BTW, you guys saw that this document is dated 10-27-2010, it's nothing new, just a re-hash of the opening letter with a merger chaser.

Agreed... No way this even makes it to a TA.

Rules of the game
 

Nobody should have a cow over an absurd opening proposal. Unrealistic "wish lists" (from both sides) are so customary in contract negotiations that they have practically become a ceremonial requirement. The question is always asked: "Why don't we save time by opening closer to the 'center', since that's where we always end up?" The answer is: "Because that would change the location of the 'center'."

Bullseye. It is standard.

Sheriff Jeff nice to Mongo
 

I didn't have to get past the preamble of this p.o.s. to have my delicate sensibilities jarred:

"The Company proposes that the JCBA contain language that clearly reflects the agreements reached between the parties in a way that pilots can readily access and understand."

Me so grateful to Sheriff Jeff and hims smart lawyers to try to make things easy for Mongo and all dumb pilots to understand, but Mongo still confused. Just tell Mongo this good deal, Sheriff Jeff, and me will believe you.

Mongo love Sheriff Jeff......not:p:rolleyes:

Are you serious? You sure have a short memory. More regional flying means people furloughed at mainline. Then Bankruptcy takes the pay they gave you in trade for scope. So you lose all around.

No scope relief.

He was definitely being sarcastic.

No doubt! NO RELAXATION ON SCOPE PERIOD! Hopefully that alone is a strike issue for all.

Bada bing.

Relaxation? We are talking reversal.

What a silly proposal. Do these guys not realize that in a couple years there wont be any regional pilots available to fly those 95 seaters? Pilots are actually helping them out by trying to take the scope back

But there is nothing better than getting pilots to pay for what management is going to throw away anyway. Wouldn't it be great to have someone pay you to take your trash away?

That thing is:

1) close to a year old
2) nothing more than a wish list
3) not a TA
4) not even enough meaningful substance to show up on X-band

Fuggedaboudit! It's just a joke

Have another beer

C/B

Pete

Couldn't have said it better. They know we will be asking for a lot after bailing the company out 8 years ago. They are just trying to move a negotiation centerpoint closer to their wishlist. As was stated in another post.

Would be nice. Part of Wendy's response is almost more disturbing to me:

"In the scheduling sections of the contract, for example, our ALPA Subject Matter Experts have quantified our proposal and demonstrated that what we are asking for—to maintain UAL’s present work rules—is actually less costly than Delta’s current contract. "

I've heard CAL current work rules are lacking, but the current UAL work rules are still from a bankruptcy contract and certainly need improvements as well.

Yeah i've been hearing that for at least 10 years now.

Ouch. Is that what they got from polling and surveys?

Or is it time to dust off the recall rules section of the by-laws...