UAL/DAL Contract 2K/Southwest Pay Comparison
 

Both UAL and DAL are presently in a much better financial condition
than they were in 2000, with these contracts, due to the current significant merger synergies.
Southwest is also in a competitive current position.
Thought it would be interesting to compare 12yr. seniority UAL/DAL C2K to current Southwest.

The UAL/DAL payrates are the 2004 rates from the Contract 2000 tables.
There is also a "corrected" number that is the 2004 UAL/DAL numbers corrected
for the 19.3% inflation from mid-2004 to mid-2011.

The SW rate is adjusted for the way they are paid per trip.
Actual dollars per hour are 20-40% higher than the book hourly rate
due to the way SW builds their trips. The conservative number of 20% is used.

All decimal amounts are rounded down to the dollar.
Many of the DAL guys are fighting for the current SW rates
as an absolute narrow body minimum, and you can see why.

Captain

Co. ...............UAL........ UAL(corr)........ DAL........ DAL(corr).............SW
Acft.
737 small........228............271..............230.. ..........273.................252

737 large........254............302..............256.. ..........304.................252
320

757...............264............314.............. 267............317................

767...............264............314.............. 267............317................
200/300

767............................................... ...301............358................
400

777...............316............376.............. 319...........379.................

747...............355............422.............. ......................................
400

First Officer

Co. ...............UAL......... UAL(corr)........ DAL.......... DAL(corr)..........SW
Acft.
737 small........156............185...............157. ...........186................176

737 large........173............205...............175. ...........208................176
320

757...............180............214.............. .182.............216...............

767...............180............214.............. .182.............216...............
200/300

767............................................... .....206.............245...............
400

777...............216...........257............... .218.............259...............

747...............243...........289............... ........................................
400

1257:

Something I learned a long time ago is to present figures which really mean something and frankly I don't get what you are trying to say.

What we all need is a comparison of actual current pay rates not some mythical adjusted rates. What are UAL, CAL, DAL and SWA pilots really getting paid today. No adjustment for inflation, 2000, 2004 etc. Just the cold hard facts.

By doing so it will be shown how much greater SWA pilots are actually paid. You might also add in any cash payments to the associated 401K ("b/c") plans and add these values to the pay.

Apples to apples please!

There is nothing mythical about it.
-We are currently under bankruptcy manipulated rates that don't represent healthy efficient pre-bankruptcy companies.
-UAL is now more efficient and has better loads/metrics than their pre-bankruptcy condition.
-Management would love to keep you at bankruptcy rates while they have pre-bankruptcy income. This shows our compensation in line with the company's income/costs.
-The title is a Contract 2K comparison, by definition.
-The rates listed for UAL/DAL were the real 2004 rates had the bankruptcy not happened.(the last year given in the C2K contract)
-The adjusted rates are adjusted for the real inflation numbers, just like the inflation increases in any other contract. (19.3% 7/04-6/11)
-The Southwest numbers are real based on real pilots dividing W2 by real hours of pay time. The conservative examples were used.
-All showing current bankruptcy induced rates does is lower the expectations of people who buy into the idea that the company can't afford pre-bankruptcy rates.
-If you would like a different view, you're welcome to do the work I did for this one.

1257:

I'm with you on the idea getting of the substantial current underpaid at UAL/CAL but your numbers still don't tell me a story. BK happened and those numbers represent another time line which didn't happen. Since we live under the current contracts I believe it is so much easier to show current actual pay rates for a comparison.

Now is your story the idea that had UAL not gone BK this is what the pilots would have gotten paid? What does that prove to the world?

I appreciate your efforts but your work doesn't tell me anything I don't already know.

Please just tell us what your numbers mean in plain English.

Thanks!

Th formatting really didn't work on this post, PM if up have a PDF or Word file and I can post it for you as a download.

HSLD, it lines up on my browser. Is it wrapping around for you?
I can tighten the columns if that's it. It is long-hand, no excel/pdf.

Regularguy, are you a UAL/DAL pilot?

1257:

Formerly a UAL pilot but now a UAL/CAL soon to me integrated pilot. I don't like to think we are two different pilot groups, we UAL/CAL, are on the same page and looking for the same things.

Ok, then you should understand that our MEC is looking for % raises from bankruptcy numbers.
And that our MEC advised us to basically sell ourselves down the river out of fear and their self preservation during BK.
I believe we, new UAL, (and new DAL) should be negotiating from the pre-forced, pre-manipulated, pre-bankruptcy numbers.
Different perspective, and these numbers, and this thread, are about the former non-bankruptcy affected numbers.
Like I said, if you like comparing raises from bankruptcy numbers, that's a different point and another thread.

I know everybody likes to "cheerlead" on these types of blog boards but without "snapbacks" negotiated in each contract...good luck.

Without "snapbacks," your basis for negotiating and settlement are three things...where your existing contracts are, where the industry contracts are and where they're going, and, what the economy's doing.

Sorry, not my idea nor necessarily my position. It comes right out of Herndon and the US Government (NMB). Been there, taken the classes (and a few others).

Have to agree with Regular Guy, Mr. 1257. This chart is utterly useless for the masses, which is the focal point of any discussions. You chart is an outlier. i have an MBA in Finance and can tell you that, i may understand this but doesn't mean i can explain it's validity or applicability. Thanks for the work though. Straight pay comparison would be best.