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-   -   "avoid like the plague" (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/61264-avoid-like-plague.html)

Coach67 08-09-2011 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by XHooker (Post 1036197)
It seems management has been adopting the worst practices from both sides to make the worst possible airline. They must have overslept and missed the class in business school when they taught it was the best practices from each entity that should be adopted.

XHooker ... man you must be on some good ganja! You are obviously confusing "Best Practices" as having something to do with the customer or the airline. Get with the times ... every time you hear "best practices" or "going forward" or "flying together" you need to change your whole paradigm. Those all mean: "Best Practices" for Jeff's pay AND "Going Forward" without the employees AND "Flying Together" to maximize management's benefits at front line employees expense. Those phrases have nothing to do with the customers or us peons!

XJT Pilot 08-10-2011 08:40 AM

Everything I've seen on the United side...SUCKS! how have you let such a once great airline become such a piece of crap ? I know your gona say it was management and I agree but know one gives a crap...your ramp could care less, gate agents a'holes, you look old and miserable somebody needs to come up with a way to fire this dead weight or like the original poster said this merger is domed to fail and at the very least it will be once again from first to worstes...I made made that word up

I hope for all our sake something good comes out of this mess...

SpecialTracking 08-10-2011 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by XJT Pilot (Post 1036670)
Everything I've seen on the United side...SUCKS! how have you let such a once great airline become such a piece of crap ? I know your gona say it was management and I agree but know one gives a crap...your ramp could care less, gate agents a'holes, you look old and miserable somebody needs to come up with a way to fire this dead weight or like the original poster said this merger is domed to fail and at the very least it will be once again from first to worstes...I made made that word up

I hope for all our sake something good comes out of this mess...

Why is it people will tell you how bad you have it and proclaim that you need to fix it? Well, here is your chance Mr. RJ pilot, instead of saying simply fire someone, why don't you put on your airline ceo hat and tell us how to really fix the problem. You sure know what the problems are, then why don't you give us a workable, viable solution to solve the problem.

I will say this about the employees of the legacy UAL, albeit at times dysfunctional, they are a family. After 9/11, I witnessed a group of people who can come together, take care of one another, and their passengers.

Back to you Mr. RJ pilot. What's your solution?

Wiggam 08-10-2011 11:39 AM

Please distance your feelings for this guy from the rest of XJT.

"know one" claims him.

flyingfarmer 08-10-2011 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1036700)
Why is it people will tell you how bad you have it and proclaim that you need to fix it? Well, here is your chance Mr. RJ pilot, instead of saying simply fire someone, why don't you put on your airline ceo hat and tell us how to really fix the problem. You sure know what the problems are, then why don't you give us a workable, viable solution to solve the problem.

I will say this about the employees of the legacy UAL, albeit at times dysfunctional, they are a family. After 9/11, I witnessed a group of people who can come together, take care of one another, and their passengers.

Back to you Mr. RJ pilot. What's your solution?

I do not know XJET pilots' solution... But I have one
... Fire Smisek for cause; then bring in Greg Brenneman ... spelling? From the worst to first CAL braintrust!

This would do several important things... 1st it would raise morale ten fold, 2nd it would let the investment world know the board was serious about making the "new" United Airlines the best in the world!

Any thoughts on this idea?

Short Bus Drive 08-10-2011 04:22 PM


Originally Posted by flyingfarmer (Post 1036913)
I do not know XJET pilots' solution... But I have one
... Fire Smisek for cause; then bring in Greg Brenneman ... spelling? From the worst to first CAL braintrust!

This would do several important things... 1st it would raise morale ten fold, 2nd it would let the investment world know the board was serious about making the "new" United Airlines the best in the world!

Any thoughts on this idea?

Let's bring back GORDON!!!!

g-code 08-10-2011 04:22 PM

I vote for Pete McDonald. Started on the ramp and worked his way up. He's an ops guy and not a finance guy.

flyingfarmer 08-10-2011 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive (Post 1036926)
Let's bring back GORDON!!!!

Gordon was just the cheerleader... Greg was the brains... He knew that if you took care of the employees in a service business, eg "airlines", it would be a better return on investment than any capital outlay. After Greg left things started heading in the wrong direction. At least that is my recollection of the situation.

Old UCAL CA 08-10-2011 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by flyingfarmer (Post 1036913)
I do not know XJET pilots' solution... But I have one
... Fire Smisek for cause; then bring in Greg Brenneman ... spelling? From the worst to first CAL braintrust!

This would do several important things... 1st it would raise morale ten fold, 2nd it would let the investment world know the board was serious about making the "new" United Airlines the best in the world!

Any thoughts on this idea?

Yes, just one...IMHO.

You could have Herb Kelleher, Gordon Bethune, and Greg Brenneman running this new United and there would still be a significant group of employees who would whine about it.

For the last 35 years there have only been two US carriers in the "legacy" category that have arguably held the best US reputation...Delta for about 20 years and Continental the next 15. United has always been big or one of the biggest, but it has rarely been viewed as the best from an industry standpoint.

The three most charismatic, smart, visionary and with the necessary gravitas, individuals I've seen in this business could not bring the new United to a best category unless they seriously started getting rid of old dinosaurs that do not have the "best" DNA as part of their genetics. This particular type of DNA doesn't magically appear based upon contracts or management. This type of DNA comes from adult personal maturity and professionalism. It certainly doesn't arise from the notion that being the "biggest" automatically makes you the "best."

God as chief couldn't get the job done unless he performed a miracle. A change at the top would not do a thing. The new United is 87,000 employees...87,000! The dinosaurs are going to have to become extinct. Old lizards aren't good for much of anything anyway except boots.

Just in case you were wondering...Truman was president when I was born. I qualify for the category. ;)

flyingfarmer 08-10-2011 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by Old UCAL CA (Post 1036955)
Yes, just one...IMHO.

You could have Herb Kelleher, Gordon Bethune, and Greg Brenneman running this new United and there would still be a significant group of employees who would whine about it.

For the last 35 years there have only been two US carriers in the "legacy" category that have arguably held the best US reputation...Delta for about 20 years and Continental the next 15. United has always been big or one of the biggest, but it has rarely been viewed as the best from an industry standpoint.

The three most charismatic, smart, visionary and with the necessary gravitas, individuals I've seen in this business could not bring the new United to a best category unless they seriously started getting rid of old dinosaurs that do not have the "best" DNA as part of their genetics. This particular type of DNA doesn't magically appear based upon contracts or management. This type of DNA comes from adult personal maturity and professionalism. It certainly doesn't arise from the notion that being the "biggest" automatically makes you the "best."

God as chief couldn't get the job done unless he performed a miracle. A change at the top would not do a thing. The new United is 87,000 employees...87,000! The dinosaurs are going to have to become extinct. Old lizards aren't good for much of anything anyway except boots.

Just in case you were wondering...Truman was president when I was born. I qualify for the category. ;)

I agree with most of your response. However, I do believe it would be an important first step. The direction could not be worse under the current regime. I do hope some of the dead wood is removed.


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