UPA: United Pilot's Association
09-15-2011 | 08:50 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Line Pilot
ALPA sucks. However, putting UPA in place would effectively be; Same Clowns, Different Circus.
Until we can get a union that has leadership that is interested in representing the pilot group, versus their own personal agendas we are doomed to mediocrity. Just take a look at the candidates running for current positions at the MEC and LEC levels. I wouldn't want to share a layover cocktail with them from past experience and darn sure don't want them running the union. But what are the options? The best and brightest don't want this job due to the soiled reputation ALL the MEC members seem to drag with them.
We have corruption at all levels of ALPA. Local and especially National. The salaries are absurd, the governing rules are archaic and the entire national union is driven by a desire to recruit more RJ companies to the party.
Gone are the days when I could read an article about the hard work ALPA has done to get a piece of important safety equipment installed on an airplane or where they have intervened to make an airport, arrival chart, departure procedure etc safer through sound reasoning and lobbying. Instead ALPA has sat on CREWPASS for 9 years, they have increased the retirement age but not the retirement benefits. The union no longer represents pilots, it is corporation that is dependent upon dues dollars to keep it running. It is sad to see what our union has become.
For the downfall of ALPA at UAL I lay it at the hands of guys like Glawe, Whiteford, Gallud, Barton, Swindels, Briggs, Benson and Wallach. These individuals put their interest and agendas before that of the pilot group as a whole. As a result they weakened the association and have given birth to the idea of kicking ALPA off the property. Had we had true leaders and forward thinkers running our union we would not be having this conversation right now. Instead these people have created a pilot group that doesn't trust ALPA. I would hope we could escape getting rid of ALPA and just return it to its former state of being a leader in safety and integrity. Currently it lacks both in vast quantities.
L
Until we can get a union that has leadership that is interested in representing the pilot group, versus their own personal agendas we are doomed to mediocrity. Just take a look at the candidates running for current positions at the MEC and LEC levels. I wouldn't want to share a layover cocktail with them from past experience and darn sure don't want them running the union. But what are the options? The best and brightest don't want this job due to the soiled reputation ALL the MEC members seem to drag with them.
We have corruption at all levels of ALPA. Local and especially National. The salaries are absurd, the governing rules are archaic and the entire national union is driven by a desire to recruit more RJ companies to the party.
Gone are the days when I could read an article about the hard work ALPA has done to get a piece of important safety equipment installed on an airplane or where they have intervened to make an airport, arrival chart, departure procedure etc safer through sound reasoning and lobbying. Instead ALPA has sat on CREWPASS for 9 years, they have increased the retirement age but not the retirement benefits. The union no longer represents pilots, it is corporation that is dependent upon dues dollars to keep it running. It is sad to see what our union has become.
For the downfall of ALPA at UAL I lay it at the hands of guys like Glawe, Whiteford, Gallud, Barton, Swindels, Briggs, Benson and Wallach. These individuals put their interest and agendas before that of the pilot group as a whole. As a result they weakened the association and have given birth to the idea of kicking ALPA off the property. Had we had true leaders and forward thinkers running our union we would not be having this conversation right now. Instead these people have created a pilot group that doesn't trust ALPA. I would hope we could escape getting rid of ALPA and just return it to its former state of being a leader in safety and integrity. Currently it lacks both in vast quantities.
L
I hope (as with our government) for a change for the better, but it never really seems to happen.
I am not saying I blame ALPA for where my career ended up, there were a lot of circumstances beyond anyone's control to be dealt with over the last decade. However, I wonder if more could have been done in the interest of ALL United pilots, rather than just the big dogs. Maybe I am way off in my thinking, maybe not. Either way, whats done is done. Prove me wrong current ALPA Officers!
09-15-2011 | 02:37 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Guppy driver
Take a look at this.......it will make you want a UPA!
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries
J
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries
J
This is who is behind this trash from the "Center for Union Facts":
(from sourcewatch.org)
Richard B. (Rick) Berman is a former labor management attorney and restaurant industry executive who currently works as a lobbyist for the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. He is the sole owner of Berman & Co., which sponsors many non-profit front groups that defend his corporate clients' interests by attacking their critics, allowing his paying clients to remain out of public view.
He is the President, Executive Director and Director of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). CCF's 2005 IRS return states that Berman works 23 hours a week for the group for which he is paid $18,000. [1] In spite of its name, CCF is more concerned about industry than the consumer. He is also the Executive Director and President of the Employment Policies Institute Foundation the American Beverage Institute and the Center for Union Facts. [2]
According to a July 31, 2006, profile of Berman in USA Today, his company has 28 employees and takes in $10 million dollars a year, but "only Berman and his bookkeeper wife" know how much of the $10 million ends up in their own pockets. [2]
Rick Berman has earned the nicknames "Dr. Evil," the "Conservatives' Weapon of Mass Destruction" and the "Astroturf Kingpin" for his repeated use of the strategy of forming non-profit front groups that advocate for the interests big business while shielding those same businesses from disclosing financial support for these efforts.[3][4]
09-15-2011 | 03:58 PM
#33
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
You're kidding right? I have no problem paying people well who represent my vital interests, and provide a check against the corporatocracy. Has ALPA always acted in my personal best interests? Obviously not. Is it better than going it alone? Hell yes.
This is who is behind this trash from the "Center for Union Facts":
(from sourcewatch.org)
Richard B. (Rick) Berman is a former labor management attorney and restaurant industry executive who currently works as a lobbyist for the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. He is the sole owner of Berman & Co., which sponsors many non-profit front groups that defend his corporate clients' interests by attacking their critics, allowing his paying clients to remain out of public view.
He is the President, Executive Director and Director of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). CCF's 2005 IRS return states that Berman works 23 hours a week for the group for which he is paid $18,000. [1] In spite of its name, CCF is more concerned about industry than the consumer. He is also the Executive Director and President of the Employment Policies Institute Foundation the American Beverage Institute and the Center for Union Facts. [2]
According to a July 31, 2006, profile of Berman in USA Today, his company has 28 employees and takes in $10 million dollars a year, but "only Berman and his bookkeeper wife" know how much of the $10 million ends up in their own pockets. [2]
Rick Berman has earned the nicknames "Dr. Evil," the "Conservatives' Weapon of Mass Destruction" and the "Astroturf Kingpin" for his repeated use of the strategy of forming non-profit front groups that advocate for the interests big business while shielding those same businesses from disclosing financial support for these efforts.[3][4]
This is who is behind this trash from the "Center for Union Facts":
(from sourcewatch.org)
Richard B. (Rick) Berman is a former labor management attorney and restaurant industry executive who currently works as a lobbyist for the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. He is the sole owner of Berman & Co., which sponsors many non-profit front groups that defend his corporate clients' interests by attacking their critics, allowing his paying clients to remain out of public view.
He is the President, Executive Director and Director of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). CCF's 2005 IRS return states that Berman works 23 hours a week for the group for which he is paid $18,000. [1] In spite of its name, CCF is more concerned about industry than the consumer. He is also the Executive Director and President of the Employment Policies Institute Foundation the American Beverage Institute and the Center for Union Facts. [2]
According to a July 31, 2006, profile of Berman in USA Today, his company has 28 employees and takes in $10 million dollars a year, but "only Berman and his bookkeeper wife" know how much of the $10 million ends up in their own pockets. [2]
Rick Berman has earned the nicknames "Dr. Evil," the "Conservatives' Weapon of Mass Destruction" and the "Astroturf Kingpin" for his repeated use of the strategy of forming non-profit front groups that advocate for the interests big business while shielding those same businesses from disclosing financial support for these efforts.[3][4]
Carl
09-15-2011 | 06:04 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: 767 Capt
Taco,
The truth is ALPA has become a bloated self serving entity that feeds off of its members. Delta will be the first to leave, we will be the second. Is it smart to place my hard earned dollars to an organization that is in direct confict with the major airline pilots needs by putting the direct emphasis on the RJ's? I think not. They brought them in, we didnt......they cut their own throats.
Those figures are accurate, it makes no difference who brings them forward.
J
The truth is ALPA has become a bloated self serving entity that feeds off of its members. Delta will be the first to leave, we will be the second. Is it smart to place my hard earned dollars to an organization that is in direct confict with the major airline pilots needs by putting the direct emphasis on the RJ's? I think not. They brought them in, we didnt......they cut their own throats.
Those figures are accurate, it makes no difference who brings them forward.
J
09-15-2011 | 06:20 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Taco,
The truth is ALPA has become a bloated self serving entity that feeds off of its members. Delta will be the first to leave, we will be the second. Is it smart to place my hard earned dollars to an organization that is in direct confict with the major airline pilots needs by putting the direct emphasis on the RJ's? I think not. They brought them in, we didnt......they cut their own throats.
Those figures are accurate, it makes no difference who brings them forward.
J
The truth is ALPA has become a bloated self serving entity that feeds off of its members. Delta will be the first to leave, we will be the second. Is it smart to place my hard earned dollars to an organization that is in direct confict with the major airline pilots needs by putting the direct emphasis on the RJ's? I think not. They brought them in, we didnt......they cut their own throats.
Those figures are accurate, it makes no difference who brings them forward.
J
09-16-2011 | 03:28 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,869
Likes: 188
Well Carl,
It's the standard talking point because it's 100% legitimate. Sure SWA and UPS kick major a$$, but there have been plenty of other "in house" pilot clubs that just sucked a$$. Make sure that you factor them into your comparison. How long has APA been without a contract? And USAPA?
I happen to be close friends with a union officer at USAPA. From what I hear from him, the type of political tripe we all love to complain about (within ALPA) is alive and well at USAPA. So, the panacea of a "new" union being free of this crap is just naive. Changing horses at this point in would extend our contract talks exponentially and would give Jeff a woodie.
Before you toss that baby out with the bath water, talk to someone who REALLY needed representation or medical help. Ask them what they think about ALPA now.
Flame all you want, but I'd rather put the onus on fixing the problems within ALPA than starting from scratch.
It's the standard talking point because it's 100% legitimate. Sure SWA and UPS kick major a$$, but there have been plenty of other "in house" pilot clubs that just sucked a$$. Make sure that you factor them into your comparison. How long has APA been without a contract? And USAPA?
I happen to be close friends with a union officer at USAPA. From what I hear from him, the type of political tripe we all love to complain about (within ALPA) is alive and well at USAPA. So, the panacea of a "new" union being free of this crap is just naive. Changing horses at this point in would extend our contract talks exponentially and would give Jeff a woodie.
Before you toss that baby out with the bath water, talk to someone who REALLY needed representation or medical help. Ask them what they think about ALPA now.
Flame all you want, but I'd rather put the onus on fixing the problems within ALPA than starting from scratch.
SWA and UPS never kicked any ass let alone major ass. They contracts came on the backs of ALPA contracts. Even then Swapa only managed to achieve pay rates 40 dollars an hour below the ALPA rates. The meltdown of the industry and chapter 11 filings left SWAPA and the Cargo airlines at the top. They did not get there on their own merits. Absent 5 billion dollars in fuel hedges SWAPA would have had much lower pay rates today.
SWA just announced no growth for the 2012 or 2013. They can't take flying from the legacy airlines anymore. They don't like being on the top. They can't wait for the legacy airlines to get higher rates so they can retain their historical cost advantage.
09-16-2011 | 04:47 AM
#37
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 673
Likes: 5
SWA and UPS never kicked any ass let alone major ass. They contracts came on the backs of ALPA contracts. Even then Swapa only managed to achieve pay rates 40 dollars an hour below the ALPA rates. The meltdown of the industry and chapter 11 filings left SWAPA and the Cargo airlines at the top. They did not get there on their own merits. Absent 5 billion dollars in fuel hedges SWAPA would have had much lower pay rates today.
SWA just announced no growth for the 2012 or 2013. They can't take flying from the legacy airlines anymore. They don't like being on the top. They can't wait for the legacy airlines to get higher rates so they can retain their historical cost advantage.
SWA just announced no growth for the 2012 or 2013. They can't take flying from the legacy airlines anymore. They don't like being on the top. They can't wait for the legacy airlines to get higher rates so they can retain their historical cost advantage.
09-16-2011 | 02:49 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: 767 Capt
Thats CAPTAIN EINSTEIN TO YOU!! 
Nope it was ALLLLLLL *** WHITEFORD!!! I NEVER in my life voted for giving up ANYTHING for the RJ', hence, I have NO idea what the hell you are talking about. I assume you are an RJ guy trying to justify the existance of the 70 seater and stealing the flying that the mainline guys have worked for 30 years to build, covet, etc, only to have some spiked haired 250 hr puke come along and steal the flying because they dont have the **** to DEMAND works rules, rest facilities, crew meals, duty rigs, basic training. and on and on...........these RJ companies suck. Plain and simple.......
Vampires.......we have vampires in aviation!! Sucking the life out of aviation........oh....and scabs suck too.....
j
Nope it was ALLLLLLL *** WHITEFORD!!! I NEVER in my life voted for giving up ANYTHING for the RJ', hence, I have NO idea what the hell you are talking about. I assume you are an RJ guy trying to justify the existance of the 70 seater and stealing the flying that the mainline guys have worked for 30 years to build, covet, etc, only to have some spiked haired 250 hr puke come along and steal the flying because they dont have the **** to DEMAND works rules, rest facilities, crew meals, duty rigs, basic training. and on and on...........these RJ companies suck. Plain and simple.......
Vampires.......we have vampires in aviation!! Sucking the life out of aviation........oh....and scabs suck too.....
j
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 01-16-2012 at 04:22 PM. Reason: TOS Profanity
09-16-2011 | 07:17 PM
#39
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Be ****ed all you want. If you want to face reality, understand that the regionals wouldnt exist if the major airline pilots (of which I and possibly you are one) didn't create them.
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 01-16-2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Quote contained TOS Violations
09-17-2011 | 01:53 PM
#40
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: 767 Capt
Murk,
I think we could finish this over a couple of beers. We ALL ssat there and said" Look at those damn turboprops, nobody wants to fly them....." That said, I never voted to give em damn JETS!!
You are right on the scared pilot group. The reason you cant find anyone who voted for it, they are no longer here. They either retired, or are fulroughed. And dont forget, an MEC lead by none other than Swindell's that lead us down the road to perdition....he is still trying to save his name on the other forum, and change his history.......weak leadership leads to disastrous results.....OBAMA????? Oh thats another thread....
Best,
J
I think we could finish this over a couple of beers. We ALL ssat there and said" Look at those damn turboprops, nobody wants to fly them....." That said, I never voted to give em damn JETS!!
You are right on the scared pilot group. The reason you cant find anyone who voted for it, they are no longer here. They either retired, or are fulroughed. And dont forget, an MEC lead by none other than Swindell's that lead us down the road to perdition....he is still trying to save his name on the other forum, and change his history.......weak leadership leads to disastrous results.....OBAMA????? Oh thats another thread....
Best,
J
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