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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   United (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/)
-   -   TPA expires, basing changes (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/62962-tpa-expires-basing-changes.html)

13n144e 10-29-2011 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by iahflyr (Post 1076889)
am all for profit sharing. I would much rather have some sort of control over how much money I would make. I think management would be more interested in paying pilots more when they are doing well, and less when the company is not doing so well. This would help discourage the work slowdowns and ****ing away of efficiency we have noticed more and more. Ask a SWA pilot how much they see this happen over there. And yet we all wonder why they make more money.
Profit sharing is not compensation. I do a job as a professional and expect appropriate compensation, not managements leftovers based on some bottom line that can be adjusted and manipulated as they see fit. I will be paid for what I'm worth. Not a single work group has contributed more to L-CAL's profitability (mostly through concessions)then the CAL pilot group. How much profit sharing are we expected to recieve this Feb? ZERO. Profit sharing is tied to contracts and those contracts are, at best, subjective around here and always seem to have passed their amendable date more often than not. I have no clue as to why you think profit sharing would give you "some sort of control" over how much money you make, but you obviously place much more trust in this management than myself and 99% of pilots hired after 1984...

gettinbumped 10-29-2011 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by iahflyr (Post 1076889)
Everyone seems to forget this. SWA pilots are paid the most because they are the most efficient. UAL will have X amount of dollars to pay enough pilots for the company. We can either be more efficient and make more money (like SWA), or be less efficient and make less money (like we currently do). The company is fine either way. They care about the bottom line. It is our choice which one we are more interested in.



One of my favorite phrases of wisdom is to always try and understand a problem from the other person's point of view. I think everyone needs to understand this before completely shooting down the need for 70 seat jets.



I am all for profit sharing. I would much rather have some sort of control over how much money I would make. I think management would be more interested in paying pilots more when they are doing well, and less when the company is not doing so well. This would help discourage the work slowdowns and ****ing away of efficiency we have noticed more and more. Ask a SWA pilot how much they see this happen over there. And yet we all wonder why they make more money.

Wow. You have completely derailed

Probe 10-29-2011 08:01 PM
IAHFLR;
So UCAL schedules me to fly 95 hours a month, and I work 18 days. SWA guys fly the same hours in 13 days. They should get paid more because they are more "efficient"? Maybe the extra hotel money and per diem is given to them?

The days of flying 500 hours a year are gone for most airline pilots. Vacation drop is gone, never to return. If we are all flying 90+ hours a month, where is the efficiency that SW pilots are being paid extra for? I don't get it.

Please enlighten me.

Probe 10-29-2011 08:07 PM
UCAL pilots are paid less because we ACCEPTED being paid less. When push came to shove, and the company told us our jobs were on the line, we blinked.

Pure and simple. The company now knows that we will always "blink". We have no negotiating power left, and never will until some group of airline pilots grows a pair and fights back.

Since both UAL and CAL pilots have been without a contract for 2+ years, it appears that it won't be us.

Probe 10-29-2011 08:34 PM
Nine years ago, when the big airline bankruptcies took off after 9/11, me and another UAL pilot had a few beers and talked about the future of the industry, and where the jobs would end up, pay and benefit wise. We made a little side bet.

I thought that the "limit" of pay cuts would be 130 and hour for a narrow body captain and 80 for an FO. My buddy guessed 100 Captain/65 FO. We both based it on the same thing - when the pay got to a certain point, so many FO's would quit they wouldn't be able to staff their cockpits.

I now think that we were both wrong. The pay is approaching 100 Capt/65 FO when corrected for 9 years of inflation. And nobody is quitting.

How low will we go? Who knows. Look at the recall numbers.

Dicecal 10-30-2011 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by Probe (Post 1077206)
IAHFLR;
So UCAL schedules me to fly 95 hours a month, and I work 18 days. SWA guys fly the same hours in 13 days. They should get paid more because they are more "efficient"? Maybe the extra hotel money and per diem is given to them?

The days of flying 500 hours a year are gone for most airline pilots. Vacation drop is gone, never to return. If we are all flying 90+ hours a month, where is the efficiency that SW pilots are being paid extra for? I don't get it.

Please enlighten me.
Exactly, please give me the SWA schedules & pay!

MXDUDE 10-30-2011 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by Probe (Post 1077226)
Nine years ago, when the big airline bankruptcies took off after 9/11, me and another UAL pilot had a few beers and talked about the future of the industry, and where the jobs would end up, pay and benefit wise. We made a little side bet.

I thought that the "limit" of pay cuts would be 130 and hour for a narrow body captain and 80 for an FO. My buddy guessed 100 Captain/65 FO. We both based it on the same thing - when the pay got to a certain point, so many FO's would quit they wouldn't be able to staff their cockpits.

I now think that we were both wrong. The pay is approaching 100 Capt/65 FO when corrected for 9 years of inflation. And nobody is quitting.

How low will we go? Who knows. Look at the recall numbers.
I hear what you're saying. But one of the problems is there isn't really anywhere to go, and mgmt knows this. I had a pretty interesting debate with a non pilot friend trying to explain that pilots don't really work in the free market. Difficult to make lateral moves without taking even bigger pay cuts, and benefit cuts etc. Mgmt knows this. At the same time our society has created a situation were most workers are lead to believe in rugged individualism (every man/woman for themselves), and that if you just work a little harder that you too will be part of the 1%. But what has been created is a mass population pool up to their eyeballs in debt trying to maintain their middle class lifestyle. Mgmt knows this. We have become a society of indentured servants. Maybe and hopefully we're at a turning point.

APC225 10-31-2011 07:07 AM
Originally Posted by MXDUDE (Post 1077446)
But what has been created is a mass population pool up to their eyeballs in debt trying to maintain their middle class lifestyle. Mgmt knows this. We have become a society of indentured servants.
"the borrower is the slave of the lender." -- Proverbs 22:7

SlickMachine 10-31-2011 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by flyingfarmer:1076337
If this all pans out as is possible i.e. DEN737, IAH320, etc. I wonder how many "paid" moves this would cause on both sides of the house?
I have lots of scrap iron around that would need to come with me. And of course all my pet rocks and pet boulders have to come too. I would consider leaving them behind but the past few years at CAL has been too unpleasant to forget.

A320 10-31-2011 03:58 PM
When is Smilton going to be in Denver?


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