TPA to expire, basing changes
 

DEN 737 and ORD 737 are now listed on the CAL site for pilots submitting their basing preferences. It looks like UCAL is going to start pushing the cheaper labor into other bases. CLE is still listed but it would seem its days might now be numbered--are there enough 73s for DEN, ORD, and CLE?

LAX 737 showed up on this site in Jan 2011 before the LAX base was announced. Pilots were in there by May.

News travels fast. They took down the new base selections already. Got a screen shot before they did though.

Two different mx guys have told me 737 were leaving iah to go elsewhere this spring and that airbus were coming to iah. Take that for what its worth.

It's almost like a merger of two airlines

In a way, except when they retire some 757s at one airline and replace the flying with 737s from the other (cheaper) airline, it feels like somethings else.

...without a JCBA or integrated seniority list. Would sure love to have access to that DEN 737 bid considering I've been based there for the better part of 17 years, and was a DEN 737 Cap until late 08 when l-UAL decided to unilaterally park an entire fleet displacing nearly 1500 pilots system wide leading to furloughs and substantial downward seniority movement. Just saying.

BTW, this will cause HUGE issues if l-UAL guys are bumped from DEN while l-CAL guys bid those seats, routes, flying. UFB that UCAL would take this route...

Scott

Huge? Understatement. Could it be UCAL trying to exert leverage to hurry your JNC to accept less? In any event, I certainly would hope both your MEC's would work together and direct the JNC to protect pilot bases (avoiding uprooting/commuting) on both sides of the fence..especially for the poor (40-50 yr old!) UAL furloughees.

Burn the place down if this happens.

They are pros!

To CAL: You want profit sharing? Accept the contract we're offering

To UAL: We replaced your 73s with RJs, now we'll replace your 75s with CAL 73s, unless you accept what we're offering.

What is mgmts biggest weapon? FEAR. Straight out of the playbook. The only thing missing was an A320 base in IAH this morning. They are simply trying to instill FEAR.

Does hate = fear? :confused:

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate.. to suffering" - YouTube

FEAR is the hammer that will drive the wedge between UAL and CAL pilots. Or so $mi$ek hopes. That will lead to contempt or hate between each groups. Whatever happens, don't fall for it.

Burn indeed.

After today's Q3 report it's clear that UCON is starting to realize the partial synergy of a combined operation. Those revenue numbers will only get better as the overlap is removed from the system in the next few years.

Aside from merger expenses, UCON noted an increase in fuel costs, which as we all know is an expense that's difficult to forecast more than a few quarters out. What I find interesting is that this management continues to marginalize, disenfranchise, and provoke the one employee group that has the greatest influence on aircraft fuel usage. I haven't seen a concerted effort to over burn, but by creating a disinterested and disengaged pilot group, human nature suggests that UCON is creating an expensive long term cultural problem.

The main thing should stay the main thing - and that's operational safety. With so many operational changes occurring, we all lean on each other to keep operational safety at the forefront of everyone's attention! However, in the current employee climate of rock bottom morale, operational efficiency may very well give way to operational safety as a long term cultural climate. Operational safety is what the traveling public expects, but not being able to achieve both safety and efficiency represents another missed opportunity that can be laid squarely at the feet of sr. management.

Hey APC225

Are you management now or a "want to be?"

Or, are you a LEC rep?

If your neither, then how do we elect you for the position?

Obviously, by the number of posts you have a lot of time on your hands. You like to sound off on all your opinions, and you keep repeating all the same old stories. Your perfect for the position.

So, who should I vote for?

Edited: My response did not fit the quote I copied.

Although they may be trying their best; so far, this is the worst divide and conquer ever by an airline management.

We were all set to attack each other over seniority and dividing our jackpot of a contract, and management essentially said, "WAIT! STOP! Look over here, we are the enemy, WATCH THIS!"

Smisek unified this pilot group (against him) better than ALPA ever could.

If they start to take advantage of expired TPA items... well, thay may actually put the entire airline in jeopardy... are they that oblivious? :mad:

We are about to find out.

Rumor. 40% of 73 leaving IAH for DEN, and ORD. A320 coming into IAH to replace that 73 flying. Let the divide and conquer be brought up to the next level. Stay focused people.

I guess I don't get the connection between frequent posting and a management wannabe. And from the content of my posts I can't see how you might reach that conclusion. It seems like an odd comment to make.

You're right in that I keep harping on the same old message though, that the loan is way past due, they've got the cash, and we absolutely cannot fail this time in getting a fair contract. Perhaps this gets irritating after awhile and the management wannabe tag is always a handy all-around general insult on a pilot forum.

You're a 756 CA. Are you happy with your pay and QOL?

APC225,

I don't either... :confused:

Nice job with the heads up on this, and several other important issues.

Thanks!

SP

luv,

Yes, they are running their playbook. While they are inept in many ways, they have the hammer and will swing it.

I'm not the only one who told folks the TPA didn't have the provisions it had unless the company could take advantage of them when pilots didn't role over on a jcba and get SLI.

And, the company is really in no hurry. The IT and MX issues have to all be worked out before a true, universal combination could be made.

I expect them to take advantage of all aspects of the TPA that can be "partially terminated." Anyone that didn't was listening to eroneous "leverage" claims by certain ALPA reps. Another hook, line, and sinker win for the company.

Lee

Likely so, but they have no idea the sh!tstorm they're about to cause by taking this tact before getting "their" house in order.

Personally, I'm not scared or fearful. I also doubt that the L-UAL side is either in general terms. The last decade beat that out of us. It seems this management is bent on unifying this pilot group like no other force can.

Scott

Amazing I been telling people this was going to happen, DEN737, for about two months now. Wow!

Now for you fear mongers, maybe this is a sign from????

Now here's what's going to happen if a JCBA is not reached, UAL will move and base airplanes wherever they think will be the best gauge for the routes. Nothing to stop them and I don't think the plan is to force a JCBA.

OK now all you CAL guys and gals who have been hollering to get back to DEN from IAH, here's your chance! And please don't tell me or any the rest of us you won't bid it until there's a JCBA, I can't stand fibbing.

;-(

I want to stay in IAH on the 73, but you're telling me that I'm going to be kicked out and replaced by high cost labor? Why I'm ready to walk. :mad:

BTW, this will cause HUGE issues if l-CAL guys are bumped from IAH while l-UAL guys bid those seats, routes, flying. UFB that UCAL would take this route...:rolleyes:

Dissatisfaction can be a two-way street. :mad:

I couldn't agree more.

Scott

If this all pans out as is possible i.e. DEN737, IAH320, etc. I wonder how many "paid" moves this would cause on both sides of the house?

EXACTLY what I was thinking.

Paid moves would mean involuntary displacement..correct? What a great show of dissatisfaction to the company and pilot unity if no one bid to move and they had to start from the bottom to displace. It would be a burden but wouldn't it be worth it?

Fred A. et.al. loves to spend dollars to save dimes. Especially during times of heightened psychological warfare.

I recall this behavior at CAL post 9/11... Anyone remember the round of furloughs that never should have happened... Flow backs to xjt, everyone was affected... More importantly, CAL ended up extremely understaffed. And yes, someone up the ladder lost their job... What was here name? I forget... I think it was a management pilot.

For what it is worth.....I'm just the messenger of gouge. Any United guys there that saw this If so, were you impressed? Remember, when either of these clowns talk, they usually bend the truth to fit the crowd.



I got this information from a friend of mine at a check airman meeting...



Jeff gave the best presentation he had ever seen from him. Very polished and good operational brief. The United guys were impressed. They said they had never had a CEO with so much knowledge of the operation. Now can he deliver?

Jeff and Fred Said:
1. They will pay industry standard. Not a penny more or less. Delta and American is our competition and soon he believes they will remove American from the comparison when they get done making cuts. Southwest is a different animal and we could pay their 737 rates but it would come out of wide body rates. There is money in the budget for pilot pay raises but how to spread it around is the issue. Staffing is the big hurdle. Once you get staffing the rest of the contract would go fast. If staffing requires 10% more pilots then those additional pilot costs come out of the hourly rates available. The company wants to staff efficiently and use the money for hourly rates. The union wants more bodies on the property.
2. We are finally going to charge more than is costs for a ticket. We are going to make a little money in the bad times and kick A** in the good times.
3. He wants the 70 seat RJ’s because of the 1st class demanded by high paying customers. He is not sure we even need 90 seat jets.
4. Denver and Cleveland are weak because of their population and location.
5. Profit Sharing for the CAL pilots will be used as leverage at the table. (the checkairman personally thinks we will get it based on the tone of the profit sharing discussions at the meeting.)
6. SOC will happen before the end of the year.
7. Ipads were being passed out to a beta group at the meeting. Ipads will be hard wired into the AC and be able to download weather and flight plans etc using wireless internet on AC when installed. Fred said he wants them out of the warehouse and into the pilots hands ASAP.
8. Bringing a UAL 747 out of the desert. May require UAL to bring back some pilots.
9. Jeff was asked why we were not advertising. Answer: The worst thing you can do is advertise something you can’t deliver on. We are not at the place where our product would match the advertising.

I figured the only reasons these guys keep talking at these check airmen meetings is so they can spread the rumors while they are out jumpseating around the system at 120 hours per month saving the airline.

Memory is coming back, CAL lost a lot of CRAF flying due to said short-sighted decision during lead up to Iraqi war because they did not have crews to fly. Ultimately, it cost said person their job...What was her name?

Debbie McCoy

10. Rainbows and unicorns will fly out of my ass.:cool:

Jeff and Fred Said:
1. They will pay industry standard. :mad:
I stopped reading after the first sentence....... FUPM

Unicorns.... Cool!:confused:

Sorry Jeff, but you're going to have to go back to the safe and bring more money to the table. Moving the same old amount of money under different shells is a tired game.

"The tone of profit sharing discussions" at a check airman meeting? I imagine the "tone" was a bunch of yes men all starry eye at Jeff nodding and salivating at every word. There's a reason he speaks at these meeting. Come to the crew rooms Jeff......talk to the folks that actually move the throttles.

OK, someone from legal might need to answer this. During negotiations, under the RLA, dont the airlines HAVE to maintain "status quo", same as we do?

If ALPA can show this as a gun to our heads, perhaps an injunction?

J

I like that angle. ...should this come to pass. It hasn't ..yet.

jaykris,

Status quo under the RLA basically means both sides will continue to abide by the CBA during section 6. Neither side can attempt to influence the negotiations through actions outside the scope of the current CBA.

The TPA is basically a 3 way agreement that attaches itself to the individual CBA's. Both sides are bound by it.

While I doubt anyone would debate the fact UCH 's invoking the "partial termination" provision would not be change and perhaps influence negotiations, it would not be a change in the "status quo" since the TPA is an agreed to addition to the CBA for conduct during the merger transition. Any actions mgmt takes within the latitude provided them is not a violation.

Sucks, huh!
Lee