Timeline for a JCBA?
 

Does anyone have a best guess on when United will have a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement? I know it is anyone's guess; but, I'd like to hear from current UCAL pilots on their best guesses. Are we talking another 2-3 years or is it within 6-9 months.
And let's be realistic about the possibility of the Federal NMB mediator releasing the pilots for self help -- not going to happen in an election year. Obama can't afford to have the nations largest airline on strike during his re-election. Every day that goes by is lost money. Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

I'll bite....
March 24th, 2014....You heard it here first.

You mean kinda like the XL Pipeline construction/plan??.....Without treading on the APC TOS, that's all I'll say about that. :rolleyes:

I've been saying mid-late 2013 for two years now. So far I've been right.. :)

I'll add that when it comes, it will be mediocre and it will pass at 53/47 with 86% voting.

I don't know, but my retro check is getting bigger by the day. Any "signing bonus" crap over FULL retro is going to get a NO vote from me

Full retro is a must, but everyday that goes by, the company is going to say they don't have the cash to provide a lump sum and will try to weasel out. They've painted themselves into a corner with retro, after all, a billion dollar lump sum payout is going to be hard to sell to shareholders and you can be sure they'll use every excuse not to pay.

That said, no way they should let off the hook, that's money they owe the pilots. When the contract became amendable, I don't think anyone considered giving these guys a free loan or worse, forgiving that debt.

In a recent conversation, the idea of amortizing retro came up that's interesting.

************************************************** *

Assumptions:

As an example, let's say pay increased by 20% in your fleet and seat. On the UAL side, amendable date was April 2009 and at as of today it's hard to imagine a ratified agreement before April 2012. So for easy math 36 months of retro. Also for easy math below I'm using guarantee of 75 hours, but obviously actual pay records for monthly credit would be used.

(Current Rate x 1.2) - Current Rate = Hourly Raise

(Hourly Raise x 75hr guarantee) x 36 Months = Retroactive pay

Let's say the contract was amendable in 48 months, then:

Retroactive pay/48 months = Monthly Retro Pay in the new contract addition to new pay rates.

Potential Benefits:

• The company would have a difficult argument trying to reduce of eliminate full retro as it avoids a lump sum payout.
• Could potentially reduce the tax burden to a pilot of a (single year) lump sum payout.
• Forces the company to pay benefits (B/C plan) on retro which it may try to avoid with a lump sum payout/signing bonus.

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This model is thrown out for the sake of discussion only, I realize that this is a horrible model for a pilot reaching 65 before the amendable date of the next contract. (in that case maybe a lump sum of the balance at retirement?).


Anyway, for the sake of discussion - discuss!











March 24th sounds about right (not sure what year) :)

I'm am going to throw out Spring 2012. SOC by this month will really show the direction were heading. Most say the company wasn't motivated to pay us more until SOC complete. Mgmt is already posturing more aggressively i.e. trying to make the other employee groups hate us and etc... They are turning up the heat because they know they need us to sign a contract sooner than later.

I just worry that American's negotiations may hurt us if they fail.

Does anyone have any historical data on retro pay? Is getting full retro pay something that happens very often? The only new contract I've ever worked under was at Trans States in 2000, and we certainly didn't get full retro, although the RJ pilots got some, if my memory serves me correctly.

All good, HSLD, but UAL ALPA's ammendable date was Jan 01, 2010. It was extended from April 09 when the company came back for a second bite at the apple in 2005. UAL has 8B in cash, and in their TA with the mechanincs are proposing a 11.5K signing bonus for each mechanic and up to 75K for early out incentives. Cash is not their problem. Costs are. They would be smart to try and "buy" a 51% vote with a huge lump sum payout.

sled

Duckdude asked:

"Is getting full retro pay something that happens very often? "

At UAL (at least for the 33+ years I've been here) the pilots have only gotten "retro" pay once and it wasn't full.

So for all you types who want a 40% raise and "full" retro pay I guess what you really want is to strike and make management pay for "their" greed. Because full retro pay is a dream which historically has never happened.

My personal observation, having walked the picket line, is that talking tuff and strutting one's stuff before a strike is awful easy to do.

How does that 'ol saying go????:confused:

"Close enough for Gov. work"....or is it "Close enough for UCH Mgt"???

Either way, they've proven synonymous under Jeff's leadership (LACK there of....).

F-UPM Jeff.....We're not going away.

I'm of the same opinion. They get SOC and then have to get the single IT issue worked out which is on-target for Spring 2012. At that point they will in theory have the mechanisms in place to cross-utilize crews. That's where the synergies will come in that the company needs the most.

I don't believe much more will be accomplished the remainder of this year, but come 1Q of 2012 I think we will start seeing some real seriousness on the part of the company to come to an agreement. It will be the last piece of the puzzle they'll need in place for all of us to play in the same sandbox.

My guess is a TA out for a vote by the end of Q2.

It'll happen before December 13th, 2012...signed sealed and delivered....the day the first age 65 must retire. And there will be a buy out. So even though they will be forced out...they will have a nice pay out to make up for the loss of the A plan/pay cuts, ect...

TA 4/1/2012

announced 6pm CST

Full retro

No equity

Company comes out ahead

Hybrid work rules

Hybrid scope

UAL contractual provisions

Increased profit sharing

Jeff announces he is stepping down

roadshows for 1 month

Voted down 64/36

Good theory. The only part I'm not jiggy with is having the company owe me money that they might try to welch on before they pay it all out.

In other words, I don't want them holding my money because I don't trust them to make good on it until I've cashed the check.

TW

Full retro
 

The last non-concessionary contract I was able to vote on (COEX C'97) had "full" retro for pay rates only. No added $$$ for the other items that cost us money.

So in that sense "full retro" has happened and it can happen.
But the longer it drags out the more likely that 50.1% will jump at whatever scraps are offered while the execs count their millions and laugh at the pathetic fools they screwed over yet again.

UALHvy:

I've been there, done that and risked it all so please don't lecture me or any "senior" pilot stuff like furloughs and surplus. We've (at least I have) been furloughed, surplussed, two tiered, lost pensions, seen the flying both come and even walked the line, so spare me your rhetoric.

If you really are in this to see a single and unified pilot group then talk and act it rather than directing your comments at some mythical evil part of the group, like "senior" pilots or "RJ pilots." All your comments do are polarize and divide.

I gave an answer and a comment to a legit question here on the blog and unless you can come up with an example at UAL or CAL, like SUPERfluf, keep your slams to yourself. And yes I fully understand many will vote NO on any contract which does not offer full retro pay and at least a 40% pay raise, but I do believe they are two items, if insisted upon, which will prevent a tentative agreement from every happening.

Or,

http://retropay2009.com/