A Problem With 5% Profit Sharing
 

So please explain how the LUAL employees, specifically the pilots are getting their PS percentage dropped from 5.9% to 5% and the LCAL guys are getting theirs increases from 3.9% to 5%. And how is this not at the expense of the UAL side?

Where did you see the final number being 5%? I haven't seen that info anywhere. As far as 5% across the board, I guess we're all in this together now right?

I guess since last year United got 5.3% and we got 3.9%, they are splitting the difference? I don't know...

Please explain what source you got this info from. Was it the same one that claimed Cal guys gave up PS for good in exchange for a raise? Oh cue dexim...

Even though the company made more money in 2011 than in 2010 the LUAL employees are the only ones getting less than last year. The UAL employees are getting 15.3% less than last year and the LCAL side is getting a 28.2% increase in profit sharing from last year


Now I got this from Skynet and I assume when they said UAL employees are getting 5% I assume that means both LUAL and LCAL.

I think you are jumping the gun here. If it's in your CBA and hasn't been amended in the TPA, then you should still get the same or more than you got last year. The 5% figure came from UAL and Jeff after the 4th quarter results were announced.

So where should I infer that 5% really means more than 5%

Is that not in your current contract?

I am just quoting what is on Skynet straight out of Jeff's mouth. Our CBA language regarding PS hasn't changed so there shouldn't be any change. The percentage should be higher because the profit was higher for 2011. Apparently only you guys are getting the increase.

I could be waaaayyyyy out in left field here, but I believe our profit sharing results were split out last year. UAL employees got paid on L-UAL's profits, and CAL employees got paid on L-CAL's profits. UAL did better financially than CAL did last year, so we got a higher percentage PS figure. This year, the financials are combined, so combining the two employee pools will dilute the results; ie, the NEW UAL didn't do as well financially as the L-UAL so the L-UAL employees get less. The NEW UAL did better than L-CAL so L-CAL will get more.

Yes, you are spot on - CAL people are getting more at the expense of the UAL people. They want all the benefits earned on the backs of others and at the same time they are not willing to standup for what's right.

I have to ask, what is your motivation? because you are sounding more and more like a PAID "Internet Troll". Did UCH put you up to this, are you working for Fred Abbott and hid well oil machine working overtime to derail our efforts? If not then my apologies.

The financials weren't reported that way when they announced the PS percentage so you are just speculating.

Simply trying to get the CAL guys moving in a direction that benefits all. The CAL guys are more aligned with the company than the UAL guys. We tried to build a bridge and they started digging a tunnel. The CAL guys seem to think the actions of Pierce, over the past couple on month, are right and justified. You talk about unity - The high road didn't work.

If you want to be **** buddies with these guys go ahead - I won't! The price is to high.

I agree that JP did not act in unity. That being said your continue attacks on the CAL pilots as a group does the same harm to our unity efforts...There are many CAL pilot whom I have talked to that did not like the whole PS mess and how it all worked out....I said this bofore and I will say it again. I am glad that the CAL pilots got their much deserve share of the PS, but not how it was obtained via an individual side deal....
As L-UAL pilots you and I can not do anything about JP, the L- CAL pilots can...Lets all work together to help keep the rogue MEC members in check..If you are a United pilot then you know how much harm a rogue MC can cause ala Paul W. and the RJ side letter...

The fact that you believe for one moment you could influence anyone is ludicrous at best.

We receive PS and now we're all company men according to dexim. As an aside, I'm curious why you didn't just run your company out of business. Did you waver in the eleventh hour concerned about yourself?


Actually we have our own bridge (no tunnel) and you're more than welcome to cross it. Granted it is a toll bridge in that we require you to check your WAY overrated, self-promoting, and nonsensical ego at the success booth.

Capt. Pierce did an excellent job. Sorry you are having difficulty understanding all the nuances in determining the best course of action but it really doesn't matter what you think anyway. Quite frankly we are not interested in your perceived high road. We are accustomed to a higher road and look forward to seeing you on it.

Ah, I love idealists, the tortured souls that they are.

You didn't like the way it turned out? Please.......



If the profit was the same as the year before then it should have been 5.9% again but it wasn't. It was actually more It is now 5%. That is a reduction. That's ok though because I am 20 minutes away from burning a sizable part of my PS check out the tailpipe.

Good to see it's still all about you............

It's not about the PS. It's about the mindset of the CAL guys in their support of Pierce as he does the company bidding. Pierce=Whiteford.

I have asked about the 5% vs 5.9% and was told that our share (pilots), will be higher than the others just like last year...We will soon find out....My strike fund will be a bit larger regardless...

You asked who, your magic 8 Ball? When someone says it "Should be" means it won't be. For the record all eligible LUAL employees last year received the same percentage with the exception being Jeff and the boys.

Mr A320, My name is lee Mata DCA 767 CAPT and I don't have a magic 8 Ball. I asked the in the back office and also sent an email to my reps and the R&I folks....The last MEC update also made reference to the fact that they are aware of the discrepancy and are looking into it...You have something further to say to me, now you know who I am and where to find me if you need to clear anything else up....Carry on..

Did you miss the part where I said I was speculating?

I will be at the FLL Family Awareness event on the 2nd and I am sure the topic will come up for discussion there as well. Like I said on my earlier post, We should find out soon enough....
Carry on.

Lee

It's all just speculation until you get your check. Who cares what Jeff and the flyingtogether website spew.

The all knowing Back Office with still no specifics other than "Should Be". Not convincing. I stopped believing the Back Office a long time ago. They are under the same mushroom cloud of factual information as you and I are. Here are a few more "Should Be" statements from the back office

1. There Should Be a contract before the end of the transition agrement
2. There Should be an On Top On Time contract
3. There Should Be IPads in your hands by November

Etc etc etc


Some people buy the Should Be answer from management and the MEC and comfortably walk away and not bring it up again. Then to find out later that it didn't happen as it Should Be and then are surprised, again.

You've already subjugated 1437 and you aren't going to be happy until to add another 4800 to that list. Your arrogance is astounding. It's either bend to your will or suffer. This isn't a merger for you. It's personal. You want nothing more than to inflict the same pain, suffering, and general discontent you've had for the last 10+ years and you aren't going to stop until we are all just as miserable and pathetic as you are. This isn't about JP or PS or the CAL pilot group. You are just ****ed at the world and want to bring us all down with you. I actually feel sorry for you.

[vent]

And Dexim's attitude and actions=FAIL.

Why is it that lUAL and lCAL can change management teams, enter into Section 6 and go through a merger and achieve ZERO? FAIL!

How can CAL have not been in bankruptcy for 2 decades, and Section 6 for years, yet achieve nothing? FAIL

Why are lCAL 777 pilots making $33 per LESS than Delta pilots? FAIL

Why are lUAL A320 pilots paid $38 per hour LESS than Delta pilots on the same airplane, yet have been out of bankruptcy longer? FAIL

Why are lUAL 747 pilots paid $36 per hour LESS than Delta pilots? FAIL

How much equity have the lUAL and CAL pilots achieved in their new company? Zero? FAIL

Instead, guys like Dexim want to turn guns and knives inward for personal political reasons. lCAL and lUAL are putting the fun into dysfunction! Yet BOTH groups have achieved....FAIL

The view of the politics from the sidelines is disgusting. Pierce, Morse, Kravit delivered nothing. FAIL

Is any learning taking place? Will Pierce and Hepner finally step up and lead the UniCal pilot group to success? Or will Smisek be trained by sophomoric conventioneer labor that he can run a separate operation and still deliver good financial results, all because he has a labor arbitrage?

That's right, UniCal labor is paying for those results and not reaping their share of the reward...because they'd rather fight turf wars with each other than come to a business solution.

FAIL

[/vent]

My company is going into Section 6 soon. You guys are the largest "comparable" in the neighborhood. You're bringing my property value down. Fix it! Not with FIN or other stupid acts that earned you an injunction, but by stepping up and working together. PLEASE!

You can't have Unity without integrity.

Yup. When are you going to find yours?;)

I can make a similar list for the Morse/Kravit/Wallach split crowd. I can go back to the conduct of both MEC's at the last BOD. To what end?

You can't have unity when you keep firing inside the circle. You (dexim) enable Smisek everytime you post. You're costing me money.

Quit it.

Fix it. Get a contract. Raise the bar. You're hurting those outside your property.

Let me get this straight - You want me to forgive Pierce. Let him dump of the UAL pilots again so you can get a pay raise. Sorry, NO!
What you can do is ask Pierce to apologize and promise not to do it again.

OK, great.

Keep whining about the CAL MEC Chair. Don't clean up your own mess that is the UAL MEC. Go all USAPA on us, making it "us versus them" rather than "we". Keep making $35 grand per year less than Delta guys on the same equipment. Keep making Smisek's job easy and yours more difficult. Genius!

Or you could take a Midol, get over your "feelings" and raise the bar. That's a lot harder, but I think you can "girl up" and do it!

You make a heckuva keyboard warrior...:eek:

How did you get over 1600 post? Letting others do the work and jumping in to take credit. Sounds like you play from the CAL MEC playbook. I do think you're trying to get my goat. Keep plugging - I'll compare anything you got or want to compare. How many have you got kick off the forum by baiting - talk about keyboard warrior............... Not on Sunday!

He has been here longer then just two months unlike you, dexim. You have shown up to offer nothing but complaining about the CAL MEC.

The 2010 LUal profit sharing was larger than 2010 Lcal because ALL the merger fees were charged to Cal. Now it looks like the fees are shared and thus the profit on which 2011 PS is based is the same.

The amount of PS received by LUal pilots would not be any greater if Lcal pilots did not receive PS. The Lcal money would simply go back to the company.

Whether I agree with JP on how the PS issue was resolved, is besides the point when considering the % or the dollar amount that LUal pilots receive on 2/14/12. That is for another thread.

This company COULD be one heck of an airline if we get someone with some vision to run this company.

I look forward to that day

OK....

Please compare the payraise that you've gotten since your merger.

Please compare the equity you've gotten since your merger.

Please compare the number of new hires you've had since your merger.

Now I get not all of that is credited to pilot leadership. What you apparently don't get is that all of that can be spoiled by bad pilot leadership. Based on both MEC's behavior, you guys would rather practice cannibalistic tribalism than find a deal that meets the needs of your pilots.

How long have your two MEC's been in Section 6? How many picketing events? How many injunctions?

Put your sights on your goal, not on each other.

If you consider this post flame bait, look in the mirror real hard.

You are saying that all merger fees were paid by LCAL and that is why your total profit was less than LUAL. HMMMMM

Yes, I am.

I don't think you know any of the history of the 2 groups over the last year or UAL history since 911. I'm not even going to try explain it to you. Read the other post on this forum if you're really that interested. The UAL MEC is currently tolerating Pierce - no respect for him or his actions. You want to place blame on everbody except the guy that created this problem. Ask Pierce to make it right and I'll never post again on him or the subject. You can live with that can't you.

Please provide a link. So you are hunkydory with getting a 28% increase in PS this year over last and feel the same with the LUAL Side getting 15%less? Just another example of the Texas Air Entitlement Mentality. I'm sure you would even rationalize transferring our assets to your side if the operations by expressing how superior your side is.

Wait, was your profit sharing pay last year based on operating profit or net profit? I was under the impression that special charges were NOT used in the formula to keep the company from fudging the numbers