Joint CAL/UA MEC Update 05-23-12
05-23-2012, 05:22 PM
#1
Keep Calm Chive ON
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Joint CAL/UA MEC Update 05-23-12
May 23, 2012
Dear United Continental Holdings, Inc. Pilots,
On behalf of the more than 12,000 pilots we represent, we sincerely thank the National Mediation Board (NMB), and particularly Senior Mediator Sims and Mediator McGuckin, for helping to facilitate the mediated talks this past Tuesday, May 15 in Chicago. We are pleased that those sessions resulted in the NMB, both Master Chairmen, the JNC and management reaching an agreement on a negotiating schedule to secure a contract by June 15, 2012.
Given those agreements, the content of a letter placed in your V-files this past week by Fred Abbott and Howard Attarian, both Senior Vice Presidents of Flight Operations for United Airlines, was confusing. Undoubtedly, this letter blurred the actual progress made in negotiations. We see no reason to detour from our steady focus on completing negotiations only to be drawn into a back-and-forth with the Company about why we are still mired in a “voluntary” process that has passed its fourteenth month of mediation. Rather, we will provide you with specifics of the end-game negotiations that we committed to in Chicago on May 15 so you can assess the facts for yourself.
As you know, we remain fully involved and committed to current negotiations with the Company, under the watchful eye of the NMB. We have no reason to slow down that process: it would be counterproductive to the one goal we have maintained all along – reaching a JCBA with United now, not at some nebulous date down the road.
Negotiations have progressed with small subgroups of JNC members and subject matter experts addressing the remaining open items of the JCBA, all working in parallel. We also have legal experts and JNC members writing the final contract language for the sections that have been agreed to in principle. All of this is being coordinated by the JNC Co-Chairmen according to a mapped out timeline that all parties mutually developed, with an end game goal of mid-June. We are encouraged by the pace and seriousness of the small subgroup negotiations, from both sides of the table presently, and we expect that to continue.
If the subgroups run into issues they cannot solve, they are elevated to the JNC Chairmen level. If the JNC Chairs are unable to solve an issue or it stagnates due to economics, it is then elevated to Subgroup Zero. Subgroup Zero is comprised of Mike Bonds and Doug McKeen for the Company, and Jay Pierce, Jay Heppner and Seth Rosen for ALPA. On May 15, Subgroup Zero engaged in its first problem-solving session and successfully worked individual issues from R&I and Scheduling through to satisfactory conclusions. Based on decisions made at this level, some 22 more items were agreed to in principle. It was a productive work session that we believe will be the catalyst for agreements in principle for several other sections of the contract.
In addition to acting as a quasi appeals process for unresolved issues, Subgroup Zero also deals with what we refer to as schedule and geographical issues (when and where we meet). Ultimately, however, the NMB controls the schedule and location of meetings, and Senior Mediator Pat Sims has been extremely helpful in this area. This past week, the parties agreed to the following:
1. Negotiations will remain in Chicago through June 1.
2. Scope discussions will begin this week in Chicago with network/business plan briefings from the Company.
3. The two JNCs will resume negotiations in New York City (NYC) on June 4.
4. Since CEO Jeff Smisek will be in NYC for the June 12 annual shareholders meeting, he will be in position for conclusion of the JCBA.
5. Pat Sims is currently tracking both sides, gauging the level of commitment towards good faith in negotiations.
6. June 4–15 is the period of intense, end-game negotiations designed to reach a conclusion to the JCBA.
It is our intent to complete negotiations according to the schedule that was agreed to by all the parties on May 15. However, we must also be prepared should they not. For this reason, we will continue to pursue the parallel track of seeking a release from mediation. This is an important backstop to these negotiations, providing a necessary driver to prevent further failures in meeting goals or backsliding on previous work completed. It is time to bring to an end game sections that have been in negotiations for years. While we absolutely prefer to achieve a contract through negotiations and are committed to staying fully and productively engaged, we are just as willing to proceed down the path of release from voluntary meditation if the Company will not conclude a new contract with the pilots in the coming weeks, and if such a release will drive the parties to reach closure.
Unfortunately at this moment in time, we are the only participants in these negotiations willing to put this “end game” negotiations timeline in writing. This only reinforces our request for release, which will generate its own timeline.
United CEO Jeff Smisek said in a letter to the pilots this week, “We’ve been negotiating long enough. Let’s get it done.” We couldn’t agree more; however, while his words are strong, actions speak louder.
We will avail ourselves of the full range of resources and commitment of ALPA to make the final agreement happen in mid-June. We will additionally avail ourselves of the full range of options under the Railway Labor Act, including release from mediation and lawful self-help if necessary. To do that, we will continue to work with ALPA National for the release mechanism that was requested on May 11, 2012.
The Company got its “fresh start” when its pilots sacrificed through extraordinary concessions, allowing legacy United to emerge from bankruptcy and legacy Continental to find surer footing. Our sacrifices laid the groundwork for the merger of the two airlines (and two great pilot groups) and expansion of the borders of our airline’s global alliance network. In contrast, the pilots have labored on with no recovery of lost benefits, pay, work rules or job protections.
It is now time for the pilots to finally receive their “fresh start” as well.
Capt. Jay Pierce Capt. Jay Heppner
CAL MEC Chairman UAL MEC Chairman
Dear United Continental Holdings, Inc. Pilots,
On behalf of the more than 12,000 pilots we represent, we sincerely thank the National Mediation Board (NMB), and particularly Senior Mediator Sims and Mediator McGuckin, for helping to facilitate the mediated talks this past Tuesday, May 15 in Chicago. We are pleased that those sessions resulted in the NMB, both Master Chairmen, the JNC and management reaching an agreement on a negotiating schedule to secure a contract by June 15, 2012.
Given those agreements, the content of a letter placed in your V-files this past week by Fred Abbott and Howard Attarian, both Senior Vice Presidents of Flight Operations for United Airlines, was confusing. Undoubtedly, this letter blurred the actual progress made in negotiations. We see no reason to detour from our steady focus on completing negotiations only to be drawn into a back-and-forth with the Company about why we are still mired in a “voluntary” process that has passed its fourteenth month of mediation. Rather, we will provide you with specifics of the end-game negotiations that we committed to in Chicago on May 15 so you can assess the facts for yourself.
As you know, we remain fully involved and committed to current negotiations with the Company, under the watchful eye of the NMB. We have no reason to slow down that process: it would be counterproductive to the one goal we have maintained all along – reaching a JCBA with United now, not at some nebulous date down the road.
Negotiations have progressed with small subgroups of JNC members and subject matter experts addressing the remaining open items of the JCBA, all working in parallel. We also have legal experts and JNC members writing the final contract language for the sections that have been agreed to in principle. All of this is being coordinated by the JNC Co-Chairmen according to a mapped out timeline that all parties mutually developed, with an end game goal of mid-June. We are encouraged by the pace and seriousness of the small subgroup negotiations, from both sides of the table presently, and we expect that to continue.
If the subgroups run into issues they cannot solve, they are elevated to the JNC Chairmen level. If the JNC Chairs are unable to solve an issue or it stagnates due to economics, it is then elevated to Subgroup Zero. Subgroup Zero is comprised of Mike Bonds and Doug McKeen for the Company, and Jay Pierce, Jay Heppner and Seth Rosen for ALPA. On May 15, Subgroup Zero engaged in its first problem-solving session and successfully worked individual issues from R&I and Scheduling through to satisfactory conclusions. Based on decisions made at this level, some 22 more items were agreed to in principle. It was a productive work session that we believe will be the catalyst for agreements in principle for several other sections of the contract.
In addition to acting as a quasi appeals process for unresolved issues, Subgroup Zero also deals with what we refer to as schedule and geographical issues (when and where we meet). Ultimately, however, the NMB controls the schedule and location of meetings, and Senior Mediator Pat Sims has been extremely helpful in this area. This past week, the parties agreed to the following:
1. Negotiations will remain in Chicago through June 1.
2. Scope discussions will begin this week in Chicago with network/business plan briefings from the Company.
3. The two JNCs will resume negotiations in New York City (NYC) on June 4.
4. Since CEO Jeff Smisek will be in NYC for the June 12 annual shareholders meeting, he will be in position for conclusion of the JCBA.
5. Pat Sims is currently tracking both sides, gauging the level of commitment towards good faith in negotiations.
6. June 4–15 is the period of intense, end-game negotiations designed to reach a conclusion to the JCBA.
It is our intent to complete negotiations according to the schedule that was agreed to by all the parties on May 15. However, we must also be prepared should they not. For this reason, we will continue to pursue the parallel track of seeking a release from mediation. This is an important backstop to these negotiations, providing a necessary driver to prevent further failures in meeting goals or backsliding on previous work completed. It is time to bring to an end game sections that have been in negotiations for years. While we absolutely prefer to achieve a contract through negotiations and are committed to staying fully and productively engaged, we are just as willing to proceed down the path of release from voluntary meditation if the Company will not conclude a new contract with the pilots in the coming weeks, and if such a release will drive the parties to reach closure.
Unfortunately at this moment in time, we are the only participants in these negotiations willing to put this “end game” negotiations timeline in writing. This only reinforces our request for release, which will generate its own timeline.
United CEO Jeff Smisek said in a letter to the pilots this week, “We’ve been negotiating long enough. Let’s get it done.” We couldn’t agree more; however, while his words are strong, actions speak louder.
We will avail ourselves of the full range of resources and commitment of ALPA to make the final agreement happen in mid-June. We will additionally avail ourselves of the full range of options under the Railway Labor Act, including release from mediation and lawful self-help if necessary. To do that, we will continue to work with ALPA National for the release mechanism that was requested on May 11, 2012.
The Company got its “fresh start” when its pilots sacrificed through extraordinary concessions, allowing legacy United to emerge from bankruptcy and legacy Continental to find surer footing. Our sacrifices laid the groundwork for the merger of the two airlines (and two great pilot groups) and expansion of the borders of our airline’s global alliance network. In contrast, the pilots have labored on with no recovery of lost benefits, pay, work rules or job protections.
It is now time for the pilots to finally receive their “fresh start” as well.
Capt. Jay Pierce Capt. Jay Heppner
CAL MEC Chairman UAL MEC Chairman
05-23-2012, 07:23 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
what does the letter NOT say?
It doesn't say to co-worker Jeff that he needs to pound sand when it comes to gutting our scope clause.
I think our union communications and messages should have that in bold print on each and every letter.
Look for the CAL MEC to cave on scope. They almost shoved down two furlough mitigaiton LOA's disguised as one thing, but were really scope relief LOA's. Be very very careful folks. Read everything, and most importantly look for what you don't see.
It doesn't say to co-worker Jeff that he needs to pound sand when it comes to gutting our scope clause.
I think our union communications and messages should have that in bold print on each and every letter.
Look for the CAL MEC to cave on scope. They almost shoved down two furlough mitigaiton LOA's disguised as one thing, but were really scope relief LOA's. Be very very careful folks. Read everything, and most importantly look for what you don't see.
05-23-2012, 08:45 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: A-320 Capt
Posts: 270
what does the letter NOT say?
It doesn't say to co-worker Jeff that he needs to pound sand when it comes to gutting our scope clause.
I think our union communications and messages should have that in bold print on each and every letter.
Look for the CAL MEC to cave on scope. They almost shoved down two furlough mitigaiton LOA's disguised as one thing, but were really scope relief LOA's. Be very very careful folks. Read everything, and most importantly look for what you don't see.
It doesn't say to co-worker Jeff that he needs to pound sand when it comes to gutting our scope clause.
I think our union communications and messages should have that in bold print on each and every letter.
Look for the CAL MEC to cave on scope. They almost shoved down two furlough mitigaiton LOA's disguised as one thing, but were really scope relief LOA's. Be very very careful folks. Read everything, and most importantly look for what you don't see.
I'm a relatively señor guy and scope will cost me, not benefit me, but it's the most important issue to me anyway. I would walk on that issue alone, and I'm not the only guy in my position to feel that way.
FUGMS (FU Give Me Scope)
C/B
TW
05-24-2012, 03:46 AM
#6
Keep Calm Chive ON
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by throttleweenie
You think that douche-nozzle doesn't know where we stand on scope?
After reading Smisek's drivel earlier this week, he was keen about defending on two things....Pay, and SCOPE.
He knows damn well where we stand on SCOPE, that I'm sure of.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...5-21-12-a.html
05-24-2012, 03:51 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by Ottolillienthal
what does the letter NOT say?
It doesn't say to co-worker Jeff that he needs to pound sand when it comes to gutting our scope clause.
I think our union communications and messages should have that in bold print on each and every letter.
Look for the CAL MEC to cave on scope. They almost shoved down two furlough mitigaiton LOA's disguised as one thing, but were really scope relief LOA's. Be very very careful folks. Read everything, and most importantly look for what you don't see.
It doesn't say to co-worker Jeff that he needs to pound sand when it comes to gutting our scope clause.
I think our union communications and messages should have that in bold print on each and every letter.
Look for the CAL MEC to cave on scope. They almost shoved down two furlough mitigaiton LOA's disguised as one thing, but were really scope relief LOA's. Be very very careful folks. Read everything, and most importantly look for what you don't see.
05-24-2012, 03:59 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
[QUOTE=Slammer;1195993 I think both MECs have SCOPE high on the screen and understand what's at stake and direction from the pilot groups.[/QUOTE]
You may be right.
However, I can think of at least one MEC Chairman that already tried to give scope away, not once, but twice on the 76 seat RJ issue. He did this with his scheduling chairman and went out and negotiated a furlough mitigation LOA, without the MEC's knowledge or blessing to supposedly save jobs, but it would have laid off 800 pilots over the long haul. Beware of at least one EVP and one MEC Chairman. They are predisposed to "advising" this route.
That magical scheduling chairman is now on the other side. Ask Pierce for a copy of the Cleveland furlough mitigation LOA and the follow on that the CAL MEC voted down. I suspect you might see some of that language again.
You may be right.
However, I can think of at least one MEC Chairman that already tried to give scope away, not once, but twice on the 76 seat RJ issue. He did this with his scheduling chairman and went out and negotiated a furlough mitigation LOA, without the MEC's knowledge or blessing to supposedly save jobs, but it would have laid off 800 pilots over the long haul. Beware of at least one EVP and one MEC Chairman. They are predisposed to "advising" this route.
That magical scheduling chairman is now on the other side. Ask Pierce for a copy of the Cleveland furlough mitigation LOA and the follow on that the CAL MEC voted down. I suspect you might see some of that language again.
05-24-2012, 04:01 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by throttleweenie
FUGMS (FU Give Me Scope)
C/B
TW
Who's that guy who makes those cool FUPM bracelets. Gotta give this one to him for a quick push to the bracelet makers.
love it.
05-24-2012, 05:12 AM
#10
Pilot Response
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 479
...and went out and negotiated a furlough mitigation LOA, without the MEC's knowledge or blessing to supposedly save jobs,
Is this the "No Furlough" clause that cost 2172 of us or the LOA to keep the A plan. Lost both & got 70 seaters. Yes everyone, read carefully.
Different MEC, same concerns
Is this the "No Furlough" clause that cost 2172 of us or the LOA to keep the A plan. Lost both & got 70 seaters. Yes everyone, read carefully.
Different MEC, same concerns
Last edited by NFLUALNFL; 05-24-2012 at 05:37 AM.
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