Good point. Although they will in fact take their respective spots on each list, the final spot in the roster list for each domicile/fleet/seat will be, in fact, determined by vacancies and the final outcome of the SLI WRT fences, etc.... Total mess IMHO. As a DEN 320 guy, I'm sick of the garbage trips/schedules caused by CAL guppies taking 20+ city pairs (mostly west coast, from my reckoning) from the traditional DEN flying that we would prefer stay UAL flying. In the end, (I have 26 years to go) I can only hope that we'll all find a way to make it all work out for the best. Still waiting (as we all are)...

Scott

Your's sounds like a solid argument, unfortunately. First I would expect that the JCBA will stipulate you'll get your UAL on-property longevity back along with whatever is accrued at CAL. As a backup, I would think this could also be part of the SLI, with backpay to the amenable date of the new contract.

CAL's getting more redeyes and 30-hour layovers than we thought possible because of the lack of a 16-hour rest requirement before an ANF and no TAFB pay calculation, as UAL has. It's miserable for the junior lineholders just above the reserves--who are also miserable.

Ah, so it is just a big @#$% sandwich for all of us? Good. Maybe we'll collectively stand up and say NO to the crap contract they're about to "unveil". It only gets better if we stand together.

Scott

Yes.
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datake,

Interesting points for certain. I wish there was a confirmed solid answer to the situation you describe. A couple of points to consider are the provisions of the TPA expire (such as pay provisions) on the effective date of a JCBA whenever that will be. On that date, true it isn't a recall for everyone, however any vacancy filling from that point forward will be from the furlough list rather than off the street. So say a furlough pilot comes back with X years of pay longevity (won't get into the furlough credit for pay discussion). That pilot will be paid based on whatever new payscale exists and their years of service, correct? But, somehow, a pilot that took the CAL position after a new JCBA is signed will somehow not have their total years of service at old UAL recognized until a recall? Anything is possible but I find that to be a stretch. I, however, haven't talked to any ALPA folks on the subject. Did you pose the question to your old UAL LEC to get their take?

Frats,
Lee

Have you looked at the den 737 pairings? Not exactly stellar material. I think theres more than a few guys who would be very happy to give the anc 2 day red eye back to the short bus.

Not sure how I would look at that as an LUAL guy, but no, I haven't. Doesn't surprise me, however. Max pain for the max number...

What I do know is that I've been based in Den for 17 years and as a severely senior 320 f/o (bottom 320 Cap seniority in Den), our flying is absolute #$%&. CLE, EWR and IAH. FWIW, I would love to be a Den 737 Cap like I was only 3 short years ago. Flying to places like LAS, PHX, PDX, SLC, GEG, SEA, ABQ, etc... Can't get enough of the new "United"...

FWIW, not angry at even one UCAL pilot (aside from the SCABS - they can rot in hell for all I care) for what has happened. It just hasn't been good for the Den UCAL pilots. Very bad, in fact.

Scott

Yes, I have and I'm still working on it. There is a whole group of very senior voluntary furlougee's agressively working on this matter too. They are junior new hires at CAL who realize that their pay will not be affected by a new CBA unless they are recalled to their rightful spot. Even though they have over 20 years seniority as United Pilots, they are only seen as a junior new hire until recall. There are a lot of United guys at CAL who are making an assumption that their pay will be adjusted to the new pay scale. Their current pay hasn't even been adjusted to the 2012 rates of the current L-UAL pay scale. Their pay is simply exactly what it was with no adjustments at the day of furlough or voluntary furlough until their CAL hire date dictates more.

Datake is totally correct. This question has been posed to several UAL LECs and furloughees will not get longevity credit unless it's specifically stipulated in the new JCBA, and every rumor until now says it's not in there! Additionally, it has not been written specifically that longevity at UAL will apply after the SLI, but rumors have it, that it WILL apply and combine your years, since there is suppose to be "no distinction of UAL vs CAL pilots after SLI implementation". Anyone else that comments to the contrary with no support, needs to keep their pinhole shut. Datake is correct and his fears are substantiated. Also, the odds of furloughees getting full longevity is a super long shot. CAL MEC does NOT want it, for fear that it will affect their pilot group. Does't matter that pay longevity should have no effect on SLI longevity, but they don't get it. And you aren't going to convince them otherwise so it will go to arbitration and each MEC will argue their points then.

Problem is, how long will it take for SLI completion?