TA in their hands
 

Sometime today, your LEC representatives will have finally been brought inside the super-secret veil of the TA. With highlighters and red markers (lots of them!) in hand, we are now focused on thoroughly scrutinizing every line of this career-changing document.

For the next week or so, we will spend just about every waking moment (and likely many non-waking moments) assessing the quality of this potential agreement, after which both MECs will separately but simultaneously vote whether to send the TA out to the pilot group at large. That vote will likely take place approximately one week from today, unless we need more time to deliberate.

As you know, the NMB and the MEC Officers are requiring that we not discuss the contents yet. We share your frustration and think that is inappropriate; nonetheless, in order to do to our job, we must reluctantly comply. Rest assured that we have heard your requests, demands, and sentiments, and we will act accordingly.

Act accordingly? I guess we will see. Good luck to us all.

When Pierce doesn't get his way in "non-binding" arbitration, it will be delayed...........again.

This whole thing is like two homeless guys fighting over who saw the sandwich in the dumpster first, management must be laughing their a$$es. off. If half of the rumors are true, this contract is a disgrace.

Ok, got this tonight from sUAL & Heppner. Wonder which one is true?

"Despite rumors to the contrary, there is no Tentative Agreement (TA) to announce at this time. While the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) remains close to completion, there still remain several Letters of Agreement (LOAs) and a Letter of Implementation that outlines the order of implementing various Sections and provisions of the JCBA. This order of implementation is IT and event dependent. The UAL and CAL MECs will soon begin their contract education period, dubbed Ground School, which will occur before MEC votes on the contract take place. The Ground School may take seven to 10 days to complete. Every effort is being made to expedite the process. The TA will not be released outside of the MECs until the MEC vote is completed, per National Mediation Board direction."

Both are probably true. LECs probably have what the line pilot considers the 600+ page contract (TA) that, if passed, we will work under for years. The MEC Chairs have been defining a TA as the contract--plus LOA(s) and $400m dispersal, which aren't done, so it is accurate for them to say there's no TA. Heppner says as much in this blastmail when he says "there still remain several Letters of Agreement (LOAs) and a Letter of Implementation" to complete. I notice that he doesn't say that putting words to the the AIP is still remaining or that work on xyz section is still remaining, as they've been saying in every communication since August. This would lead me to believe the writing of the contract is done and the reps are starting their "ground school."

Yes, like those who proclaim it's the end of the world based solely on rumors (or half of them in your case). Sit on your hands and count to ten, wind your watch, or whatever it is you do in the face of an emergency (real or perceived). Why not wait to actually read the thing before launching into your angry man routine?

I have no opinion until I read it, then I might just join you, but least I'll know why.

Another LEC chimes in
 

"While the TA is not finished, your C-11 officers are starting to review the 25 sections that are complete. Using excerpts from a C-57 update, we want to make sure your personal information is up to date for mailings that may be sent. Additionally, make sure you are current with any ALPA dues or assessments. If you are not in good standing, you will not be able to vote on any proposed contract."

Not be able to vote? If it is anything like the leaked info it should not be brought to the membership for selling and voting unless the current officers want to be recalled.

C'mon Syd, the pie is only so big. Industry standard stuff you know. With a touch of harmonization.

Thx special tracking I forgot, lol.

Not
 

FROM THE CHAIRMAN (CAL)
This week, progress toward the JCBA continued. In light of the myriad number of rumors circulating about the TA and the process, I think it is helpful to remember what must be completed before the MEC can make any decision whether or not to send the TA out for member ratification. First, there must be a completed TA. This has not happened yet and there is still no TA. From my update last Friday, there are three components to the TA: (1) the language of the contract as well as various letters of agreement and memoranda of understanding, (2) the implementation LOA and (3) the division of the lump sum amount between CAL and UAL pilots and the allocation mechanics within each pilot group that must be formalized in the contract.

As expected, the bulk of the language for the contract was completed this week (LOAs and MOUs remain in progress) and the MECs were provided with access to preliminary information (under approval by the National Mediation Board) to begin familiarizing themselves with some of the language. They do not yet have the entire TA and no action (vote) is scheduled. Further, while the MECs have been allowed access to the TA language to give them time to digest the information, nothing about the TA will be released outside of the MECs until both MECs have actually voted on the TA, per NMB direction.

Regarding the implementation LOA, work focused today on negotiations for this component of the TA. These important provisions set the schedule for implementing the terms of the new agreement. This component of the TA may seem deceptively simple, but the details involved with implementation of a complex document like the JCBA and translating it to operational reality are quite involved.

As for the third leg of the TA stool, the CAL and UAL MECs met separately at the beginning of the week to review the process agreement that determines the allocation amounts between the MECs for the retroactive/lump sum payment negotiated as part of the TA. The process agreement was approved by both MECs, setting in motion an expedited arbitration process that began on Nov. 1 and continued through today. We expect the decision on the allocation amounts between the two MECs to be delivered by Monday, Nov. 5. Language must then be written and added to the TA so that it can be considered by the MECs and ultimately the pilot group as part of the contract.

I want to re-emphasize the fact that until all three components are completed, there is no tentative agreement. Once there is a TA, the MECs will hear from the JNC, attorneys, and subject matter experts and analysts on every section of the completed TA. This process from the beginning of MEC review will take a minimum of eight days but will last longer as necessary. If the TA is approved independently by both MECs, it will be sent to both pilot groups for the membership ratification process. Information in addition to the TA, in the form of town hall meetings, written materials, video, Internet and web-based material, etc. will be provided to make sure that you have what is needed to make an informed decision on the acceptability of the TA for you and your family. We will give you information and answer questions. We will ask you to vote, but never advise you how to vote. That decision is yours.

FUJP....:mad:

The pay rates have already been verified as legit, mark me down as a "no". Have fun reading.

>> will take a minimum of eight days but will last longer as necessary<<

What's the deal here?

Exactly, why bother!

TA in their hands
 

600+ pages. We'll need at least 30 days to review. To many interactions within the contract. If the MECs start rushing us, just vote no. We've all learned to not rush it.

Blastmail
 

The United MEC and a few members of the Continental MEC began Ground School today on the 25 Sections of the Tentative Agreement which still requires the Letters of Agreement discussed in Friday's MEC Update. The MEC members received a status update from the Joint Negotiating Committee Co-Chairmen. They reported that progress is being made on the remaining Letters required to complete the Tentative Agreement. The National Mediation Board (NMB) last week gave the two MEC Chairmen permission to begin MEC reviews of the Agreement while waiting for the Letters to be completed, and the United MEC began this review in earnest with the intent of getting the Tentative Agreement to all the pilots as soon as possible.

This afternoon’s session covered Sections 22 and 24: Retirement and Insurance. The briefings were conducted by UAL-MEC R&I Committee members, CAL-MEC R&I Committee members, and ALPA Benefits Attorney.

On Sunday, the Ground School will cover Section 8 – Filling of Vacancies (Staffing); Section 9 – Training; Section 23 – Flight Instructor/Evaluator; Section 16 – Missing, Internment, and Hostage; and Sections 17 and 18 – Grievances and System Board of Adjustment.

The UAL-MEC is tasked with being knowledgeable and assisting in the editing (spelling, references, etc.) of the new Agreement. This is to ensure the product the Pilots receive is thoroughly vetted and crisp. They are taking their representational responsibilities seriously.

We will keep you informed of the MEC’s progress.

So why is it just a few members of the CAL MEC?

Hmmmmm now where could they be?

The question should be: Where is ALPA National on this? Why are they allowing foot-dragging on one side that might de-rail the process and subsequently cause a loss of a large chunk of dues-paying members to pay their dues to some other organization.

There is suppose to be a process that is written down somewhere in the ALPA Merger rules and if not there darn well should be!

Does anyone have the proposed pay rates?

Alpa national could care less I am afraid. If this fall through or is a terrible deal and our reps bring it to us alpa culd be in for a big suprise!

TA in their hands
 

National cares about one thing, $$$$$.
Just ask the TWA guys.

It's not that ALPA National cares or does not, the process is governed by the respective MEC's and the protocols/policy they jointly put in place. How that happens must stay within the CBA's of each airline and conform to the policy manual of each MEC. As long as the protocols stay within the framework and don't run afoul of the C&BL of ALPA National there isn't anything in which National can have a say.

Yep, what you said....

Yeah, I agree.... All ALPA cares about is dues money.:rolleyes:

Original post update
 

"Last week we sent out a blastmail stating that we had received the TA minus two LOAs. That blastmail started a small battle over semantics. Allow us to explain.

What we actually received was the TA minus all of the LOAs. Technically speaking a TA; is not a complete TA until it includes all LOAs, MOUs, notes written on napkins (as long as they are signed by all parties), etc. So, while the book that we were initially given is fashionably being called the;contract language; or;contract body; it was not the complete and official "TA".

Nonetheless, for the past few days, we have been studying the TA (*minus the LOAs), however we do not yet have the complete TA (including all LOAs). We did receive the bulk of those LOAs late yesterday, excluding the; Lump Sum; LOA (which is currently being drafted, following today's decision from the arbitrator). Once we get those, we will officially have an official TA and we will officially be studying the official TA.

Well almost.

Aside from the Lump Sum LOA, there are still two other LOAs that are time-dependent, and therefore will not be included in the TA until we are reasonably close to voting. But we are now close enough for all practical purposes (and to the satisfaction of the MEC) to call it a TA and to proceed with our education of the TA.

Semantics aside, in the interest of not rushing and to allow enough time for your representatives to thoroughly study the TA, the MEC has decided that we will postpone our TA Ground School until we have all the pieces of paper we need. We now anticipate beginning ground school tomorrow. Based on that start date, we anticipate finishing ground school over the weekend, and after a few days of deliberation, could conceivably be ready to vote in roughly 7-10 days from today.

Our brothers on the UAL MEC have chosen to commence their ground school already, and that is completely their choice. We commend them for being proactive and motivated to delve into this TA. They have also invited members of the CAL MEC to attend as well, and some have taken them up on their offer. We have also extended the same courtesy to them when we start our training. As mentioned above, we have an independent timeline that we will follow and we will not vote until every single CAL MEC representative is comfortable and ready."

Thanks for this update, to me it doesn't sound as dysfunctional as everyone, including myself, is making it.

Now that we finally have a Dem in the White House I fully expect to see the TA finalized by noon tomorrow

Now that we have a Dem in the White House I fully expect this AIP to be voted down by at least one (LUAL) of the MECs. I think this AIP/TA was a hedge in case Romney won.

"Now that we have a dem in the Whitehouse"...you can't be real. What do you think we have had in the last 4...what's going to change other than the malaise?

I'll bet the LCAL MEC comes closer to voting it down then the LUAL side.

Any takers?

sure........

If you think obama is going to help us, you need to be drug tested

Exactly. Many "slow learners."

Yeah, Romney really loved labor!

That's not the point at all. The point is that Obama isn't going to let his campaign finance contributors and his "hometown" airline go on strike and disrupt his already busted economy. Obama is not any different than Romney on almost every issue, so leave the politics out of it.

That is why I am now a Yes for the TA. I want the bonus now so that I don't have more taken out in taxes next yr. I also don't want to make over 250k (taxes), so I am good with the pay rates as well.

We have pilots in danger of making over $250K? :eek:

Unless we get some leaked info, I bet we never know how each mec votes. Executive session. No need for the peons to know.