Originally Posted by Mitch Rapp05 (Post 1441089)

LUAL parked the entire fleet of 737's and replaced the flying with RJ's AFTER the pilots gave up scope. Parking of the 737's was all about surviving. This whole "parked for the merger" talk is missing the FACT that l-UAL pilots had essentially given the company the green light to outsource flying.

In all honesty, I was truly hoping that LUAL pilots would have been the more adamant group about holding the line on scope in these last rounds of negotiations since they saw their careers decimated by incompetent management and scope relaxation ...but I digress.

Originally Posted by Mitch Rapp05 (Post 1441066)

L-UAL pilots have no choice but to build up the "wide body" fallacy because they gave up all of their 737 when they voted to relax scope. So, naturally their airline would be "jumbo" heavy. Of course, now they are trying to regain all of that lost progression by screaming that "longevity" is the end all while forgetting that the 3 factors mentioned in the ALPA merger policy is a means to an end. The point of the policy is NOT that the final list be composed soley by heavily weighing any of the much preached about "3 factors". The entire goal is a "fair and equitable list". Arbitrators can compare size of airplane or size of underwear if they want, as long as they come up with a "fair and equitable list". In the end the crux of this SLI weighs on if the arbitrators feel that placing unemployed pilots of a shrinking airline in front of employed pilots with solid expectations as "fair and equitable".

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441099)

Parked the entire fleet and replaced it with rj flying? You might want to talk to the bus drivers and ask them what happened to their flying after the guppies were parked.

In all honesty, I wish the cal mec would have been more adamant in upholding unionism. But then, nothing like three years to drive upgrades and promote a snapshot date.

Originally Posted by CALFO (Post 1440054)

Sorry. That was a typo on my part. I meant to say that the cal 2005 pilot was a senior FO in 2010. Why should he be junior to a 1998 ual pilot that can barely hold reserve in 2010?

Originally Posted by Mitch Rapp05 (Post 1441118)

Yes, it's always the fault of the CAL pilots and our MEC led by the all powerful Jay Pierce. I'm beginning to realize that if you don't agree with or acquiesce to every demand of LUAL pilot group then your not a "unionist" or you're "holding up the UPA".

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441237)

The track record over the last three years speaks volumes. There are two examples which stand out. First is your lec stating the upa would be held up indefinitely if pay banding was not utilized. Secondly, the refusal to sign an dal style agreement not to use the upa as a springboard for the sli.

Pretty much every ual pilot I have spoken with who voted for the contract said the agreement was substandard. Their primary reason for voting yes was to end the abuses of the last three years.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441257)

Trying to deflect what occurred during the last three years MAX? I will never convince you and don't need to. Although I voted no, I understand why the majority on the United side voted yes knowing full well what a pig of an agreement it is.

The events of the last three years speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441237)

The track record over the last three years speaks volumes. There are two examples which stand out. First is your lec stating the upa would be held up indefinitely if pay banding was not utilized. Secondly, the refusal to sign an dal style agreement not to use the upa as a springboard for the sli.

Pretty much every ual pilot I have spoken with who voted for the contract said the agreement was substandard. Their primary reason for voting yes was to end the abuses of the last three years.

Originally Posted by Maxepr1 (Post 1441280)

Not trying to deflect anything thing SPECIAL. You don't need to convince me of anything. Your not happy cause it didn't go your way. Thats my opinion. Mitch hit the nail on the head in a earlier post. If you don't need to convince me whats with all the "last three years stuff?" Looks like your problems have been brewing much longer than that. Or is it you were very happy the last 7 years before that with your MEC? What occurred was we didn't roll over to the all Great United MEC and you and many others take exception to that, Which I think your prejudice and your not happy and never will be that I am convinced of. I guess we all look at events differently.

Originally Posted by larryiah (Post 1441283)

Don't like pay banding? Take it up with Glenn.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441285)

Taxied past a parked 767-300 with sparky parked on the other side. Funny thing, couldn't see sparky because the 767 overshadowed it.

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441285)

Taxied past a parked 767-300 with sparky parked on the other side. Funny thing, couldn't see sparky because the 767 overshadowed it.

Originally Posted by Maxepr1 (Post 1441291)

And your point?

Originally Posted by larryiah (Post 1441290)

Originally Posted by SpecialTracking (Post 1441284)

We will look at things differently and I'm afraid we will pay the price for years if not decades to come.

Originally Posted by SEDPA (Post 1441310)

This is not inevitable ... neither MEC operated in a vacuum ... BOTH sides are to blame for the lost time and possible gains, PERIOD. Post SLI, post ONE MEC, it will be our actions together that sow the seeds of gains or despair.

L-UAL brought many equities to the table, and amongst them was no protections to your flying in a merger, and 1437 unemployed pilots ... In my humble opinion, these two "equities" are the biggest reasons why we are where we are today, and will be the biggest two drivers in the arbitrators' award.

Originally Posted by larryiah (Post 1441311)

A C130 hauling trash is still bigger than an F16.

Originally Posted by Lerxst (Post 1441347)

I miss Staller

Originally Posted by Maxepr1 (Post 1441299)

Fill a 767 with people and gas and a 787 the same way and point them over the pacific . I wonder who'd be in life rafts first? With no mechanicals of course :)...

....Which airplane is better? Who really cares...

Originally Posted by Lerxst (Post 1441347)

I miss Staller

Originally Posted by cadetdrivr (Post 1441353)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...alm_statue.jpg

:D

Originally Posted by LAX Pilot (Post 1441314)

Total BS. UAL MEC didn't pout like a kid and say they wouldn't negotiate unless the other side agreed to their idiotic pay banding scheme. Sad part is if it doesn't help the CAL side with their SLI Ike they hoped we now get to get paid Narrowbody pay for flying a 757 and small wide body pay for flying a 747 and 777.

Fortunately the arbitrators have already indicated they'll use longevity as a major factor because that's the only evidence they went out and got on their own. They had to write a letter to management asking for accurate CAL mainline hiring dates and furlough and recall dates because the CAL side refused to provide it. Much like the CAL JCBA stall tactics. Oce they got that, they decided they didn't
Need the last two days of surrebuttals and the CAL side flipped out!

So I guess we will see.

Originally Posted by Maxepr1 (Post 1441454)

Looks to me like the "Idiotic" pay banding scheme work out well for the airbus guys...I could be wrong but didn't the CAL 777 pay more than the 74 at that time? The mines bigger than yours logic didn't quite work then LAX.. Get over it...

Originally Posted by larryiah (Post 1441470)

I miss Staller too. He put some perspective into the bigger is better argument. His big boat was just one aspect.

Originally Posted by Really (Post 1441494)

What happened to Staller?

Originally Posted by LAX Pilot (Post 1441481)

No it didn't. So go from an A-320 to 757 and not get a pay raise? That's stupid lowering the 757 rate to A-320.

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 1441698)

How about the fact that we now have 8 day trips on the 787 out of IAH.
Just wondering for the LUAL folks.. did you guys have any restrictions on lengths of trips before the JCBA, or in past CBA's?

Thanks
Motch

Originally Posted by larryiah (Post 1441702)

Can you be double pumped after an 8 day trip?

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 1441710)

Only if you go through Thailand~

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 1441710)

Only if you go through Thailand~