Now THAT is a legitimate gripe!

I called my reps and let them know how much that little policy ticked me off. I don't remember anyone giving ALPA direction to offer up our furloughees to be cast out again (in front of CAL guys).

They said that they were trying to get furloughed merged with active and it was something they had to do in order to appease the arbitrators.

I don't agree. Even if nobody gets furloughed in the next 5 years, seeing (in writing) that ALPA offered to throw you to the street first is extremely damaging. I would probably be out of ALPA at this point (if I was a UAL furloughee).

Once again....keep in mind that the rank and file UAL line pilot did not want to see this.

I don't recall reading the highlited part of your post. What's your reference? The furlough protection for CAL added by the arbitrators was not negotiated. The arbitrators felt it necessary to give the CAL types protection for a limited time while the UAL furloughed were moved into their rightful place on the senority list. The UAL Merger Committee did a good job and the abitrators were fair.

The UAL negotiating committee had this in their proposal to the arbitrators. You can check the transcripts from the hearings.

This was UAL's idea in order to make putting furloughed with active more appealing.

For OP, I feel your pain and are in the same shoes. Some things they have control over some they dont. Getting us integrated into the list is a "little help" (moved a 120ish numbers from staple) but benefited the entire UAL side.

The thing you have to remember is we of the 1436 are and have been negotiating pawns for Heppner. We'll see if they will now fix UPA LOA25 (The one that carves out our LUAL pay longevity). Now that damages are known, I will assume the lawsuit will be back if it isn't fixed internally.

The ISL is the list and we have to live with it. Keep your head up and remember there is more to life than this job.

dog

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.48692...5.1&H=90&W=160

Wise words, Grasshopper! Thanks for giving this idiotic forum perspective. The aura of an airline career is so far removed from what it once was I wonder who cares any more? It's no longer a career. We're simply widgets. Its just a job.

FUPM. Show me the money. :D

I've gone thru the transcripts a couple of time and still don't see a reference to the UAL side trading to get UAL furlough seniority for CAL furlough protection. Would you give me a direct reference to this please.

Its in the transcript I remember reading it, believe it was the last day of their evidence, and at the time it was thanks for another kick to the jimmy Heppner. I dont remember seeing anything that specifically stated it was to make UAL proposal a win-win for both sides. LUAL furlough=negotiation pawn

The exact words of "trading to get UAL furlough seniority" is not in there anywhere. But in the UAL conclusion report it is one of the their suggestions:
Fences, Furlough out of seniority order, etc.

I always thought that was a strange one to throw in there, but I would agree with the earlier poster that said it was something the UAL side felt they needed to do to get the UAL furloughed guys mixed with active employees. And the arbs must have agreed.

Agreed. The career changed to a job to a hobby that helps pays the bills. It would be cool if UAL had management that actually wanted to run a first class airline. Heck I would settle if they just followed Delta but they cant even do that right.

And it worked. Plus since we are hiring new pilots (Over 200 to date) they are all going to be furloughed first, so by the time the next downturn happens and they furlough 1,000 pilots, its likely no LUAL pilot will get furloughed.

I think they just looked at the growth and the number of retirements and made a smart decision to give up something that wasn't likely to have any real effect on the UAL pilots.

And for those pilots it paid off big time.

Also, think of it this way....

If those UAL pilots had been stapled THEY HAVE BEEN FURLOUGHED FIRST ANYWAY.

So They didn't give up ANYTHING. They just got integrated fairly.