|
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
(Post 1477634)
And it worked. Plus since we are hiring new pilots (Over 200 to date) they are all going to be furloughed first, so by the time the next downturn happens and they furlough 1,000 pilots, its likely no LUAL pilot will get furloughed.
I think they just looked at the growth and the number of retirements and made a smart decision to give up something that wasn't likely to have any real effect on the UAL pilots. And for those pilots it paid off big time. Also, think of it this way.... If those UAL pilots had been stapled THEY HAVE BEEN FURLOUGHED FIRST ANYWAY. So They didn't give up ANYTHING. They just got integrated fairly. If I was part of that group I would be upset with that clause. |
Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
(Post 1477634)
And it worked. Plus since we are hiring new pilots (Over 200 to date) they are all going to be furloughed first, so by the time the next downturn happens and they furlough 1,000 pilots, its likely no LUAL pilot will get furloughed.
I think they just looked at the growth and the number of retirements and made a smart decision to give up something that wasn't likely to have any real effect on the UAL pilots. And for those pilots it paid off big time. Also, think of it this way.... If those UAL pilots had been stapled THEY HAVE BEEN FURLOUGHED FIRST ANYWAY. So They didn't give up ANYTHING. They just got integrated fairly. |
Originally Posted by missintheline
(Post 1477282)
It's alright; It's okay. We understand, and, most importantly (to you) it won't affect you and yours in any way.
The lads we'll take it out on is the lads behind us. No chance we'll be giving them any consideration or quarter; Why would we. We weren't given any. When the time comes....and it'll come, don't worry; we'll make selfish, me first decisions based on our own needs with no thought to what our juniors should get or deserve, same as you did. Well Done. So here's to Fraternity; the lie of the Union; All for One and One for Number One. While I understand your frustration (a buddy of mine is in your same situation at UAL), the fact of the matter is that this "it's all about me, to hell with the other guy" attitude has been prevalent among airline pilots for decades now. Especially since the Me Generation (those pilots now hanging on 'til 65, while praying the retirement age gets raised again) succeeded the WWII and Korean War pilots who came before them. And it has always been the most junior pilots who have gotten the short end of the stick. In good times and in bad. Alas, it would appear from your post that the Entitlement Generation is not about to reverse that trend any time soon. |
Originally Posted by JohnHale
(Post 1477646)
Good Point and Post. David Watts is a CAL guys just stirring the UAL pot.
|
Correction-UAL furloughees hired before April 2000 were integrated with active pilots. As a June 2000 hire, I was stapled below all active pilots, but still offered up as furlough fodder over the LCAL furloughees with whom I was integrated.
|
Originally Posted by NFLUALNFL
(Post 1477689)
Maybe, but he is correct on this one.
So what are you saying? Walk in with a proposal that stapled all CAL guys below the UAL guys. The arbitrators wouldn't have gone for that like they didn't go for the CAL's proposal. Not one UAL pilot wanted to see another UAL pilot furloughed and to imply the reverse is true does a disservice to all that have worked and sacrificed to help the furloughed. The UAL MEC has done a good job of representing the furloughed, especially during the SLI and should be commended for that work. Let's put the ball in your court. What would you have done differently that would have carved out a better results for the furloughed in the SLI? Remember it would have to pass the smell test and approved by the three arbitrators. |
Originally Posted by missintheline
(Post 1477282)
Fraternal Brothers,
Through no fault of our own, we've been sidelined for over 10 years. All that time we've been tuning in and following along; the Forgotten, steaming up the windows from the outside looking in, full of what has turned out to be false hope and misplaced surety, confident that our Union of Bretheren were keepin' a weather eye out for us. Now the decision has been made and we've been left disenfranchised; The Lost Boys of 2000-2001. The ones you neglected to remember when you smashed together these lists and stapled us behind the class of 2008. It's alright; It's okay. We understand, and, most importantly (to you) it won't affect you and yours in any way. The lads we'll take it out on is the lads behind us. No chance we'll be giving them any consideration or quarter; Why would we. We weren't given any. When the time comes....and it'll come, don't worry; we'll make selfish, me first decisions based on our own needs with no thought to what our juniors should get or deserve, same as you did. Well Done. So here's to Fraternity; the lie of the Union; All for One and One for Number One. See you in hell, Laddies, The Disenfranchised p.s. Despite all the setbacks, I'm young enough and healthy enough that I'll spit on all yer graves anyways, ya bastards. The difference is, of course, the rest of us realize it now. |
Originally Posted by missintheline
(Post 1477282)
Fraternal Brothers,
Through no fault of our own, we've been sidelined for over 10 years. All that time we've been tuning in and following along; the Forgotten, steaming up the windows from the outside looking in, full of what has turned out to be false hope and misplaced surety, confident that our Union of Bretheren were keepin' a weather eye out for us. Now the decision has been made and we've been left disenfranchised; The Lost Boys of 2000-2001. The ones you neglected to remember when you smashed together these lists and stapled us behind the class of 2008. It's alright; It's okay. We understand, and, most importantly (to you) it won't affect you and yours in any way. The lads we'll take it out on is the lads behind us. No chance we'll be giving them any consideration or quarter; Why would we. We weren't given any. When the time comes....and it'll come, don't worry; we'll make selfish, me first decisions based on our own needs with no thought to what our juniors should get or deserve, same as you did. Well Done. So here's to Fraternity; the lie of the Union; All for One and One for Number One. See you in hell, Laddies, The Disenfranchised p.s. Despite all the setbacks, I'm young enough and healthy enough that I'll spit on all yer graves anyways, ya bastards. That being said, your post is WAY out of line irregardless of the suffering of the past 10 years. |
I empathize with the double furloughees, but at the same time, they have to accept responsibility for their choices, even if it was just bad luck.
If I were a 2000 or 2001 hire at UAL, and saw all our work rules go away in bankruptcy, I would have never looked back at UAL. We didn't outsource flying right away to RJ's, we outsourced flying to - ourselves. We flew the same number of flights with A LOT fewer pilots. The more senior furloughees had a brighter outlook. I have a half a dozen old squadron mates that were hired at UAL in 2000-2001. All are JB , Fedex, UPS, SWA, etc. None are ever coming back to UAL. I think the arbs were wise in integrating some of the furloughs with active, but not all. In the end, we take the cards we are dealt, and make our own choices. Choosing to come to UAL for the 3rd time? I like to think I would have been a faster learner than that. |
Originally Posted by Probe
(Post 1478169)
I empathize with the double furloughees, but at the same time, they have to accept responsibility for their choices, even if it was just bad luck.
If I were a 2000 or 2001 hire at UAL, and saw all our work rules go away in bankruptcy, I would have never looked back at UAL. We didn't outsource flying right away to RJ's, we outsourced flying to - ourselves. We flew the same number of flights with A LOT fewer pilots. The more senior furloughees had a brighter outlook. I have a half a dozen old squadron mates that were hired at UAL in 2000-2001. All are JB , Fedex, UPS, SWA, etc. None are ever coming back to UAL. I think the arbs were wise in integrating some of the furloughs with active, but not all. In the end, we take the cards we are dealt, and make our own choices. Choosing to come to UAL for the 3rd time? I like to think I would have been a faster learner than that. Integrating some of the (2000 hires) furloughed UAL pilots BEHIND some of the furloughed CAL pilots is inexcusable. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:07 AM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands