The last three years
09-10-2013, 09:50 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 168
The last three years
Two days after the ISL was awarded a friend of mine texted the following: So…your thoughts on the list? Was down in Houston ops yesterday. Not a happy place.
I replied: I thought it was fair and it was what I fully expected to happen three years ago. It was relative seniority for me as of 2010 and counting the furloughee’s.
Then I started thinking. They’re not happy? I’m OK with the ISL but honestly I’m not happy either:
I’m not happy the S-CAL MEC delayed our contract two and a half years attempting to improve their position in the ISL arbitration. The arbitrators even noted the S-CAL proposal “manifestly intended to embrace the windfall of potential Captain upgrades in February 2014”. Not only did the extended wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part cost everyone in both groups thousands of dollars but the retro pay recovered only a fraction of the increased wages squandered.
I’m not happy the S-UAL pilots overwhelmingly voted in a substandard contract with ridiculous pay bands to stop from being whipsawed by the S-CAL MEC and management. The pay band “battle” proved to be more obsessive wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part as the arbitrators didn’t even use the new pay bands to develop the ISL award. Our working together management even revealed the extent to which they would whipsaw us in favor of the S-CAL pilot group when during the SLI managers from Flight Operations claimed they could not determine the dates of hire of the S-CAL pilots. But that was no surprise. Fred Abbott was so petty he wouldn’t allow S-UAL pilots who lived in the Houston area to park in the United Employee parking lot at IAH until after the S-UAL domicile opened there in September 2012.
I’m not happy our furloughee’s had to come back as Uhires at S-CAL during the three years of delayed SLI, rather than having the opportunity to be a part of a completed ISL. On top of that, some furloughed pilots have been in limbo these extra years to see the outcome of the ISL before deciding whether or not they even wanted to return. As part of their coordinated plan to influence the outcome of the SLI, the S-CAL MEC also harmed the S-UAL furloughee’s with the insertion of LOA 25 into the contract.
I’m not happy about the training costs that will need to be wasted in order to retrain the S-CAL pilots who will get bumped from the seats they’ve occupied for the last three years as this will impact our future profit sharing payments. In addition, over the last couple of years they’ve been collecting pay at those higher rates while enjoying vacation and monthly scheduling bids that they could not under a completed ISL and it will take years to change. Our working together management was a willing partner building this inequity; therefore if management asks for any relief in the timing of retraining I strongly suggest our union leadership to say NO!
I’m not happy some S-CAL pilots were grabbing senior manning pay this summer while their United pilot coworkers had 30% of the pilots on reserve in some fleets and seats. Some S-CAL 737 captains were said to be in S-UAL cockpits gloating about making $30,000 in a month. Once again, why didn’t the working together management balance the 737 flying across other fleets like the A-320 and reduce the cost of senior manning to benefit profit sharing?
I’m not happy we all had to spend millions of extra dollars for merger, contract and seniority litigation expenses due to the S-CAL MEC trying to win every “battle” possible rather than compromise. The pay bands, the profit sharing, the retro pay, etc. The S-CAL MEC felt they had nothing to lose at “battle” with Abbott & Co covering their flank.
I’m not happy “the ISL produced by the CAL committee’s was not only based on a fatally defective methodology but was neither fair nor equitable” and built unrealistic expectations in the S-CAL pilot group. A component of the S-CAL ISL to support this scheme was that it was “engineered to justify the stapling to the bottom of the list of all United pilots on furlough status as of May 3, 2010”. Now there’s going to be animosity for years. How will the “unfair, inequitable and disproportionate” efforts of the CAL merger committee impact our cohesion during the next contract negotiations?
Finally, I’m not happy so many individual S-CAL pilots are unwilling to recognize any of the above. A portion of continue to hold onto disingenuous beliefs about the merger and its aftermath. When discussing the merger proposals the S-CAL pilots I know all told me “Don’t blame me it’s our MEC”, but I doubt any of these individuals even attempted to contact their MEC members and question them about their almost fanatical efforts to win every “battle”. With an MEC like S-CAL’s it’s no wonder that our human relations tab on Flying Together is now labeled “All About Me”.
The overzealous, misguided efforts on the part of the CAL MEC are almost over. But the S-CAL MEC Chairman pointed out that there are many “battles” to be fought post ISL in his latest letter. When I was in the military preparing for “battle” as part of our training we were taught the ideals of Honor, Integrity, and Mutual Respect. Where were those ideals the last three years? Jump seat issues, cancellations of future training bids, possible splitting the S-CAL 757/767’s to a separate fleet, the profit sharing grievance, etc are not “battles” to be “won” in the future, they’re actually “issues” that need to be “negotiated”. Moving forward, I believe the S-UAL MEC will not try to even the score for the long, wasteful, brutal, childish, disgusting, expensive, and thoroughly predictable last three years. My guess is the S-UAL MEC will most likely negotiate any issues remaining with the S-CAL MEC fairly. But it will be from a standpoint of fairness, not that we “won” the SLI. I also believe the combined MEC will work to overcome the bitterness of the last three years and attempt to improve our cohesion. Now that I have spoken my peace and counted to three, I'm through dissecting the last three years, the SLI, etc. My suggestion to everyone is to stop here and move on with a good life, anything else will burn you up and kill you. It is over. The only way to recover from this is to assess the results and move on. I fear too many of us will fail to do that, and in so not doing, ruin their lives, their children's lives, their marriages, and the lives of all whom they see every day.
I replied: I thought it was fair and it was what I fully expected to happen three years ago. It was relative seniority for me as of 2010 and counting the furloughee’s.
Then I started thinking. They’re not happy? I’m OK with the ISL but honestly I’m not happy either:
I’m not happy the S-CAL MEC delayed our contract two and a half years attempting to improve their position in the ISL arbitration. The arbitrators even noted the S-CAL proposal “manifestly intended to embrace the windfall of potential Captain upgrades in February 2014”. Not only did the extended wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part cost everyone in both groups thousands of dollars but the retro pay recovered only a fraction of the increased wages squandered.
I’m not happy the S-UAL pilots overwhelmingly voted in a substandard contract with ridiculous pay bands to stop from being whipsawed by the S-CAL MEC and management. The pay band “battle” proved to be more obsessive wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part as the arbitrators didn’t even use the new pay bands to develop the ISL award. Our working together management even revealed the extent to which they would whipsaw us in favor of the S-CAL pilot group when during the SLI managers from Flight Operations claimed they could not determine the dates of hire of the S-CAL pilots. But that was no surprise. Fred Abbott was so petty he wouldn’t allow S-UAL pilots who lived in the Houston area to park in the United Employee parking lot at IAH until after the S-UAL domicile opened there in September 2012.
I’m not happy our furloughee’s had to come back as Uhires at S-CAL during the three years of delayed SLI, rather than having the opportunity to be a part of a completed ISL. On top of that, some furloughed pilots have been in limbo these extra years to see the outcome of the ISL before deciding whether or not they even wanted to return. As part of their coordinated plan to influence the outcome of the SLI, the S-CAL MEC also harmed the S-UAL furloughee’s with the insertion of LOA 25 into the contract.
I’m not happy about the training costs that will need to be wasted in order to retrain the S-CAL pilots who will get bumped from the seats they’ve occupied for the last three years as this will impact our future profit sharing payments. In addition, over the last couple of years they’ve been collecting pay at those higher rates while enjoying vacation and monthly scheduling bids that they could not under a completed ISL and it will take years to change. Our working together management was a willing partner building this inequity; therefore if management asks for any relief in the timing of retraining I strongly suggest our union leadership to say NO!
I’m not happy some S-CAL pilots were grabbing senior manning pay this summer while their United pilot coworkers had 30% of the pilots on reserve in some fleets and seats. Some S-CAL 737 captains were said to be in S-UAL cockpits gloating about making $30,000 in a month. Once again, why didn’t the working together management balance the 737 flying across other fleets like the A-320 and reduce the cost of senior manning to benefit profit sharing?
I’m not happy we all had to spend millions of extra dollars for merger, contract and seniority litigation expenses due to the S-CAL MEC trying to win every “battle” possible rather than compromise. The pay bands, the profit sharing, the retro pay, etc. The S-CAL MEC felt they had nothing to lose at “battle” with Abbott & Co covering their flank.
I’m not happy “the ISL produced by the CAL committee’s was not only based on a fatally defective methodology but was neither fair nor equitable” and built unrealistic expectations in the S-CAL pilot group. A component of the S-CAL ISL to support this scheme was that it was “engineered to justify the stapling to the bottom of the list of all United pilots on furlough status as of May 3, 2010”. Now there’s going to be animosity for years. How will the “unfair, inequitable and disproportionate” efforts of the CAL merger committee impact our cohesion during the next contract negotiations?
Finally, I’m not happy so many individual S-CAL pilots are unwilling to recognize any of the above. A portion of continue to hold onto disingenuous beliefs about the merger and its aftermath. When discussing the merger proposals the S-CAL pilots I know all told me “Don’t blame me it’s our MEC”, but I doubt any of these individuals even attempted to contact their MEC members and question them about their almost fanatical efforts to win every “battle”. With an MEC like S-CAL’s it’s no wonder that our human relations tab on Flying Together is now labeled “All About Me”.
The overzealous, misguided efforts on the part of the CAL MEC are almost over. But the S-CAL MEC Chairman pointed out that there are many “battles” to be fought post ISL in his latest letter. When I was in the military preparing for “battle” as part of our training we were taught the ideals of Honor, Integrity, and Mutual Respect. Where were those ideals the last three years? Jump seat issues, cancellations of future training bids, possible splitting the S-CAL 757/767’s to a separate fleet, the profit sharing grievance, etc are not “battles” to be “won” in the future, they’re actually “issues” that need to be “negotiated”. Moving forward, I believe the S-UAL MEC will not try to even the score for the long, wasteful, brutal, childish, disgusting, expensive, and thoroughly predictable last three years. My guess is the S-UAL MEC will most likely negotiate any issues remaining with the S-CAL MEC fairly. But it will be from a standpoint of fairness, not that we “won” the SLI. I also believe the combined MEC will work to overcome the bitterness of the last three years and attempt to improve our cohesion. Now that I have spoken my peace and counted to three, I'm through dissecting the last three years, the SLI, etc. My suggestion to everyone is to stop here and move on with a good life, anything else will burn you up and kill you. It is over. The only way to recover from this is to assess the results and move on. I fear too many of us will fail to do that, and in so not doing, ruin their lives, their children's lives, their marriages, and the lives of all whom they see every day.
09-10-2013, 09:55 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Cal reserve..the gift that keeps on giving
Posts: 532
Originally Posted by Birddog
Two days after the ISL was awarded a friend of mine texted the following: So…your thoughts on the list? Was down in Houston ops yesterday. Not a happy place.
I replied: I thought it was fair and it was what I fully expected to happen three years ago. It was relative seniority for me as of 2010 and counting the furloughee’s.
Then I started thinking. They’re not happy? I’m OK with the ISL but honestly I’m not happy either:
I’m not happy the S-CAL MEC delayed our contract two and a half years attempting to improve their position in the ISL arbitration. The arbitrators even noted the S-CAL proposal “manifestly intended to embrace the windfall of potential Captain upgrades in February 2014”. Not only did the extended wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part cost everyone in both groups thousands of dollars but the retro pay recovered only a fraction of the increased wages squandered.
I’m not happy the S-UAL pilots overwhelmingly voted in a substandard contract with ridiculous pay bands to stop from being whipsawed by the S-CAL MEC and management. The pay band “battle” proved to be more obsessive wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part as the arbitrators didn’t even use the new pay bands to develop the ISL award. Our working together management even revealed the extent to which they would whipsaw us in favor of the S-CAL pilot group when during the SLI managers from Flight Operations claimed they could not determine the dates of hire of the S-CAL pilots. But that was no surprise. Fred Abbott was so petty he wouldn’t allow S-UAL pilots who lived in the Houston area to park in the United Employee parking lot at IAH until after the S-UAL domicile opened there in September 2012.
I’m not happy our furloughee’s had to come back as Uhires at S-CAL during the three years of delayed SLI, rather than having the opportunity to be a part of a completed ISL. On top of that, some furloughed pilots have been in limbo these extra years to see the outcome of the ISL before deciding whether or not they even wanted to return. As part of their coordinated plan to influence the outcome of the SLI, the S-CAL MEC also harmed the S-UAL furloughee’s with the insertion of LOA 25 into the contract.
I’m not happy about the training costs that will need to be wasted in order to retrain the S-CAL pilots who will get bumped from the seats they’ve occupied for the last three years as this will impact our future profit sharing payments. In addition, over the last couple of years they’ve been collecting pay at those higher rates while enjoying vacation and monthly scheduling bids that they could not under a completed ISL and it will take years to change. Our working together management was a willing partner building this inequity; therefore if management asks for any relief in the timing of retraining I strongly suggest our union leadership to say NO!
I’m not happy some S-CAL pilots were grabbing senior manning pay this summer while their United pilot coworkers had 30% of the pilots on reserve in some fleets and seats. Some S-CAL 737 captains were said to be in S-UAL cockpits gloating about making $30,000 in a month. Once again, why didn’t the working together management balance the 737 flying across other fleets like the A-320 and reduce the cost of senior manning to benefit profit sharing?
I’m not happy we all had to spend millions of extra dollars for merger, contract and seniority litigation expenses due to the S-CAL MEC trying to win every “battle” possible rather than compromise. The pay bands, the profit sharing, the retro pay, etc. The S-CAL MEC felt they had nothing to lose at “battle” with Abbott & Co covering their flank.
I’m not happy “the ISL produced by the CAL committee’s was not only based on a fatally defective methodology but was neither fair nor equitable” and built unrealistic expectations in the S-CAL pilot group. A component of the S-CAL ISL to support this scheme was that it was “engineered to justify the stapling to the bottom of the list of all United pilots on furlough status as of May 3, 2010”. Now there’s going to be animosity for years. How will the “unfair, inequitable and disproportionate” efforts of the CAL merger committee impact our cohesion during the next contract negotiations?
Finally, I’m not happy so many individual S-CAL pilots are unwilling to recognize any of the above. A portion of continue to hold onto disingenuous beliefs about the merger and its aftermath. When discussing the merger proposals the S-CAL pilots I know all told me “Don’t blame me it’s our MEC”, but I doubt any of these individuals even attempted to contact their MEC members and question them about their almost fanatical efforts to win every “battle”. With an MEC like S-CAL’s it’s no wonder that our human relations tab on Flying Together is now labeled “All About Me”.
The overzealous, misguided efforts on the part of the CAL MEC are almost over. But the S-CAL MEC Chairman pointed out that there are many “battles” to be fought post ISL in his latest letter. When I was in the military preparing for “battle” as part of our training we were taught the ideals of Honor, Integrity, and Mutual Respect. Where were those ideals the last three years? Jump seat issues, cancellations of future training bids, possible splitting the S-CAL 757/767’s to a separate fleet, the profit sharing grievance, etc are not “battles” to be “won” in the future, they’re actually “issues” that need to be “negotiated”. Moving forward, I believe the S-UAL MEC will not try to even the score for the long, wasteful, brutal, childish, disgusting, expensive, and thoroughly predictable last three years. My guess is the S-UAL MEC will most likely negotiate any issues remaining with the S-CAL MEC fairly. But it will be from a standpoint of fairness, not that we “won” the SLI. I also believe the combined MEC will work to overcome the bitterness of the last three years and attempt to improve our cohesion. Now that I have spoken my peace and counted to three, I'm through dissecting the last three years, the SLI, etc. My suggestion to everyone is to stop here and move on with a good life, anything else will burn you up and kill you. It is over. The only way to recover from this is to assess the results and move on. I fear too many of us will fail to do that, and in so not doing, ruin their lives, their children's lives, their marriages, and the lives of all whom they see every day.
I replied: I thought it was fair and it was what I fully expected to happen three years ago. It was relative seniority for me as of 2010 and counting the furloughee’s.
Then I started thinking. They’re not happy? I’m OK with the ISL but honestly I’m not happy either:
I’m not happy the S-CAL MEC delayed our contract two and a half years attempting to improve their position in the ISL arbitration. The arbitrators even noted the S-CAL proposal “manifestly intended to embrace the windfall of potential Captain upgrades in February 2014”. Not only did the extended wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part cost everyone in both groups thousands of dollars but the retro pay recovered only a fraction of the increased wages squandered.
I’m not happy the S-UAL pilots overwhelmingly voted in a substandard contract with ridiculous pay bands to stop from being whipsawed by the S-CAL MEC and management. The pay band “battle” proved to be more obsessive wasted effort on the S-CAL MEC’s part as the arbitrators didn’t even use the new pay bands to develop the ISL award. Our working together management even revealed the extent to which they would whipsaw us in favor of the S-CAL pilot group when during the SLI managers from Flight Operations claimed they could not determine the dates of hire of the S-CAL pilots. But that was no surprise. Fred Abbott was so petty he wouldn’t allow S-UAL pilots who lived in the Houston area to park in the United Employee parking lot at IAH until after the S-UAL domicile opened there in September 2012.
I’m not happy our furloughee’s had to come back as Uhires at S-CAL during the three years of delayed SLI, rather than having the opportunity to be a part of a completed ISL. On top of that, some furloughed pilots have been in limbo these extra years to see the outcome of the ISL before deciding whether or not they even wanted to return. As part of their coordinated plan to influence the outcome of the SLI, the S-CAL MEC also harmed the S-UAL furloughee’s with the insertion of LOA 25 into the contract.
I’m not happy about the training costs that will need to be wasted in order to retrain the S-CAL pilots who will get bumped from the seats they’ve occupied for the last three years as this will impact our future profit sharing payments. In addition, over the last couple of years they’ve been collecting pay at those higher rates while enjoying vacation and monthly scheduling bids that they could not under a completed ISL and it will take years to change. Our working together management was a willing partner building this inequity; therefore if management asks for any relief in the timing of retraining I strongly suggest our union leadership to say NO!
I’m not happy some S-CAL pilots were grabbing senior manning pay this summer while their United pilot coworkers had 30% of the pilots on reserve in some fleets and seats. Some S-CAL 737 captains were said to be in S-UAL cockpits gloating about making $30,000 in a month. Once again, why didn’t the working together management balance the 737 flying across other fleets like the A-320 and reduce the cost of senior manning to benefit profit sharing?
I’m not happy we all had to spend millions of extra dollars for merger, contract and seniority litigation expenses due to the S-CAL MEC trying to win every “battle” possible rather than compromise. The pay bands, the profit sharing, the retro pay, etc. The S-CAL MEC felt they had nothing to lose at “battle” with Abbott & Co covering their flank.
I’m not happy “the ISL produced by the CAL committee’s was not only based on a fatally defective methodology but was neither fair nor equitable” and built unrealistic expectations in the S-CAL pilot group. A component of the S-CAL ISL to support this scheme was that it was “engineered to justify the stapling to the bottom of the list of all United pilots on furlough status as of May 3, 2010”. Now there’s going to be animosity for years. How will the “unfair, inequitable and disproportionate” efforts of the CAL merger committee impact our cohesion during the next contract negotiations?
Finally, I’m not happy so many individual S-CAL pilots are unwilling to recognize any of the above. A portion of continue to hold onto disingenuous beliefs about the merger and its aftermath. When discussing the merger proposals the S-CAL pilots I know all told me “Don’t blame me it’s our MEC”, but I doubt any of these individuals even attempted to contact their MEC members and question them about their almost fanatical efforts to win every “battle”. With an MEC like S-CAL’s it’s no wonder that our human relations tab on Flying Together is now labeled “All About Me”.
The overzealous, misguided efforts on the part of the CAL MEC are almost over. But the S-CAL MEC Chairman pointed out that there are many “battles” to be fought post ISL in his latest letter. When I was in the military preparing for “battle” as part of our training we were taught the ideals of Honor, Integrity, and Mutual Respect. Where were those ideals the last three years? Jump seat issues, cancellations of future training bids, possible splitting the S-CAL 757/767’s to a separate fleet, the profit sharing grievance, etc are not “battles” to be “won” in the future, they’re actually “issues” that need to be “negotiated”. Moving forward, I believe the S-UAL MEC will not try to even the score for the long, wasteful, brutal, childish, disgusting, expensive, and thoroughly predictable last three years. My guess is the S-UAL MEC will most likely negotiate any issues remaining with the S-CAL MEC fairly. But it will be from a standpoint of fairness, not that we “won” the SLI. I also believe the combined MEC will work to overcome the bitterness of the last three years and attempt to improve our cohesion. Now that I have spoken my peace and counted to three, I'm through dissecting the last three years, the SLI, etc. My suggestion to everyone is to stop here and move on with a good life, anything else will burn you up and kill you. It is over. The only way to recover from this is to assess the results and move on. I fear too many of us will fail to do that, and in so not doing, ruin their lives, their children's lives, their marriages, and the lives of all whom they see every day.
09-10-2013, 10:12 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
I've had three. And I'm movin' on.
*** For an interesting change, skip the olive. Instead, use a thin slice of Jalapeno or Serrano pepper for the garnish and add a half teapsoon of marinated jalapeno juice to the shaker. A great home made IV drip and it even makes Gordons taste top shelf!
*** For an interesting change, skip the olive. Instead, use a thin slice of Jalapeno or Serrano pepper for the garnish and add a half teapsoon of marinated jalapeno juice to the shaker. A great home made IV drip and it even makes Gordons taste top shelf!
09-10-2013, 01:41 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by oldmako
I've had three. And I'm movin' on.
*** For an interesting change, skip the olive. Instead, use a thin slice of Jalapeno or Serrano pepper for the garnish and add a half teapsoon of marinated jalapeno juice to the shaker. A great home made IV drip and it even makes Gordons taste top shelf!
*** For an interesting change, skip the olive. Instead, use a thin slice of Jalapeno or Serrano pepper for the garnish and add a half teapsoon of marinated jalapeno juice to the shaker. A great home made IV drip and it even makes Gordons taste top shelf!
09-10-2013, 02:44 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11
In the future ear plugs will be applied as soon as I hear "I’m not happy the S-CAL MEC delayed our contract two and a half years..."
09-11-2013, 10:08 AM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 63
I don't think any of us are real happy, bud. Just keep coming to work and try to be positive. Our careers are in jeopardy if this continues to divide us..
Any who.. Working on getting out of here ...mil leave for 3-5 years. It's been a good time, guys, but I'm gonna need a break.
Any who.. Working on getting out of here ...mil leave for 3-5 years. It's been a good time, guys, but I'm gonna need a break.
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