Bumps
 

Looking at the Min/Max on this bid.....What is to stop UCH from issuing a displacement bid for the 756 fleet in IAH (ex-Con)? Bump more junior CAL guys rather than more senior UAL guys (i'm talking FOs here). THen, the more senior UAL guys are "trapped" in the combined 75/76 fleet once they are merged and we can fly each other's metal.

Things that make you go hmmmmm???

Sled

Not if they can't hold Captain. Gonna have to train new 737 FOs anyway as a/c get delivered. I'm talking about bumping OUT of IAH, not into. The Min/Max for both the 756 and 76T in IAH shows a BIG spread. Why not bump out of there where FOs are relatively junior.

Sled

Well I guess a flush bid is in order then .... why are you guys so bump happy?

Not bump happy. But when the CFO says 73 aircraft will be gone in 2.5 years, you wonder how that is going to happen. Add in the stated LAX 747 base closure in the spring and re-opening of ORD 747 (which will result in shinkage of SFO 747) and you have some issues.
I was pointing out that the company MAY choose to bump CAL 756 FOs because the CAL side is more junior and will have less bumping horsepower. It would work if it is done closer to when we start flying each other's jets, although somewhat bs because it is sUAL 757-200s that are disappearing and so we should get the bumps. Wouldn't surprise me though. Just a possibility.

Sled

It does appear that you are bump happy. This is the biggest vacancy bid you guys have seen in 5 years. It's not good enough for you to bid captain, but you have to bump someone out too? Interesting.

As for how people will be displaced, I think the company will continue to staff towards the min # on the bid and reduce it that way. So if there are 100 pilots in the BES and max is 100 min 90 with 10 retirements in that BES they will just staff the 90 and keep going down like that. It will eventually catch up where people will get displaced, but that may take awhile. The FO side will just dwindle down as senior FOs take the upgrade or move to bigger equipment which will take care if itself. There will be some displacements I'm sure, but probably not to the level you are hoping.

Just my guess and I'm usually wrong. But maybe a possibility so the training doesn't cost the company too much money.

Getting a bump does not automatically "bump someone". It allows you to go where you have someone junior to you. It may very well be the only way to get into a base, as these vacancy bids will go senior for some time. Secondary bumps MAY occur, but that is not a given, since there are a lot of 737s scheduled for delivery. The company could slow vacancies, for instance, and prevent secondary bumps. The point being that retirements and attrition MAY not be enough given the aggresive 757 retirement schedule and the planned 747 base swapping.

Sled

We will see if the new combined Manpower Planning is that Savvy.

You are absolutely right that if they are going to issue bumps they should be smart about how they do it. History says that will not happen, but we shall see.

As you point out, in bases that are shrinking or need combining you would want to bump from the junior side just so those that are bumped are limited in their choices. This would apply to IAH 756.

Conversely, you would think they would be smart about other bumps as well. Why are they not bumping out of DEN 320, when that base has a very small number of departures out of DEN compared to the size of the Staffing. Those folks would likely go to the 737 in DEN, which I would assume is where the company wants them to go. Instead they issue 20 Captain vacancies and they will get folks from everywhere coming back home to DEN. Great for us, really dumb for the company!

ORD 737 Cap is the same. They should bump from ORD 767 CAP and ORD 767 F/O, which will be shrinking as the 57s get parked (theoretically). Many junior ORD 67 Captains want to go back to the Guppy. I am an ORD 67 F/O and every reserve Captain I have flown with has said that is what they want to do. Additionaly, every current ORD 67 F/O has the seniority to hold ORD 737 Cap on a bump. So, if they were to bump ORD 67 F/Os, any F/O that wanted to go to ORD 737 Cap could simply volunteer for the bump and get the "bid" that they want. Since the size of the ORD 737 base will undoubtedly grow (almost as many departures as EWR but about 1/3 the size) this would seem to be very good for company, so I doubt they will do it!!!

Instead they will proceed on in ignorance, double their training cost and time and won't be able to execute on the Summer 2014 flying plan, but what else is new!

I hate to rain on your conspiracy theories and usual arguments but Jeff will do whatever saves him the most money. The guy gets excited about ordering cashew halves vs whole nuts and sits on an ivory tower of lawyers. He will save the bucks regardless of who is MEC chair.

Here are the Denver 767 November Line Awards:

Cap....56 lineholders. 64 reserves
FO......50 lineholders. 59 reserves

I am sure the company will let this go on for a period of time to try and get as many pilots to bail out on a vacancy as possible, but the bumps are a coming....Meanwhile, Y'all enjoy the paid vacation. Get those skis/snowboards tuned and waxed. :D

Sledsta

Jsled,

LAX 777 CAP is just the opposite:

33 lineholders and only 6 reserves

I've been called 4 times in the last 2 months for senior manning at 200% pay

F/O's are more balanced:

56 lineholders and 28 reserves.

wonder what the plan is to deal with this.

Yup. I think there's a continual comparative calculation going on between the cost of carrying too many pilots while they wind down staffing through attrition, and the cost displacement training effects.

That ^^^ brings a tear of sorrow to my eye.

...and all of them can hold 737 Captain in Denver. All of them. This is about to get ugly.

The systematic protection continues.

I don't think in this case there is a big difference between displacement based training events, and vacancy based training. If a bunch of 767 FO's and Capts bump to 737 Capt, which is the airplane that will be replacing their fleet, in their base, that training event is the same.

If a super junior 737 Captain gets bumped, what is he going to be able to bump too? More than likely a 737 FO, which he is probably still qualified to fly with just a PC in the right seat, or maybe just a few more days of training.

When bumps start higher on the food chain, like during a big furlough, the snowball starts at the top. The snowball gets very big, very fast.

In this case, maybe not so much. IMHO.

I am surprised the company is sitting on that many excess 767 pilots getting paid not to fly. Since they all live in Denver anyway, why not sit around getting paid for nada? I would.

What is even worse, is the most junior of those 737 Captains probably haven't even been trained yet. Maybe manpower planning is playing favorites after all.

Ya think? I've also noticed an increase on field stand by and annoying stuff like that. Might be a gentle push by the company to try and get guys to bid off.

Not really ... the reason you are seeing more FSB's is because they are free now thanks to this new POS contract. They used to pay 5 hours.

The junior 737 captains can hold 737, 320, 756, 777, 787 FO positions in all bases. Or, depending on the base, they can hold 737 capt in another base.

After getting bumped out of the Left seat in 2002 & 2009. It will be nice to get bumped out of the right seat to the Left. Crazy.

Good luck with your next drug test.

That is halarious. "Captain decisions". Yea I'm not qualified to make those kind of decisions cause I'm busy sitting on my hands.
IAH, you need a 5th stripe cause your RJ Command time made you a "Super Commander of Apollo 13". I'll be sure and give you a salute in the terminal.

What a steaming load******** Thanks for the belly laugh. ***********

This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this forum...and there is a lot of dumb stuff written here.

Not only that, he just gave the finger to about 4000 LUAL guys and probably 1500 or so LCAL types. Funny thing about hubris, the one full of it, is usually full of it!

They only paid 5 hrs IF you broke 70. I did them for "free" all the time under our old POS contract. ;)
I believe Hoss is spot on. Look for an increase in SC and FSB. THere are guys on RSV next month that haven't seen RSV in 10 years! Once they get a taste, some will bite on a vacancy. Others know the drill and will wait it out for a bump to the left seat.

Sled

I think he means you are a doosh.

Can someone please explain to me how this guy made it through the hiring process and then training?

I'm being completely serious. I may not be the best pilot on the planet, but I like to think of myself as a competent pilot that can handle almost any situation. I'm not cocky or arrogant about it. I fly planes, then I go home and enjoy my great life with my wonderful wife. That's it. I like to think that I'm an okay guy to sit next to on a 4-day trip....but for the life of me I can't seem to get called for the interview.

When I read the garbage that IAH posts I can't understand HOW this guy made it through the process. No offense, but I don't care what seat you're sitting in, by the end of a 4-day trip I would be reaching over and wrapping my fingers around his neck.

Unbelievable....

As with all pilot groups there are 10% that make you go....huh?

My 17 year old daughter has a greater maturity level than you. I'm sure you are a real joy to sit next to in the cockpit.

Staller/Carolsdanger/JohnHale got banned 3 times in the last 9 months for the same type of $s IAH is posting. For good reason, for sure. I would have banned him sooner.

IAH is the ugly twin brother from another mother.

If I click my heals 3 times, will one of the moderators jump in?

Heels, yes.