The current JR Man list shows the following:

Jr LAX 756 at 11,825.
Jr SFO 756 at 12.091.

Jr LAX 737 at 12,488
Jr SFO 737 at 12,583

Jr LAX 320 at 12,465
Jr SFO 320 at 12,591

These are new hires asking about getting to these bases on the airplanes they are being assigned when they are hired. They want to know if getting to SFO and being a little more senior is worth the weather problems. None of them are going to be 777 FOs in the next few years so whatever that fleet does, who cares.

777 fleet is also much larger in SFO than LAX. Yes SFO is more junior (mostly because of the bid that JUST CLOSED). Prior to that the difference in seniority was 1 year. Now its....wait for it.... 1 year 10 months. Yes the two most junior LUAL pilots in SFO and LAX are an entire 22 months apart in hiring, not "5-8 years".

So the seniority for new hires right now getting into SFO and LAX is close, SFO is a little more junior, and LAX has better weather, all like I said.

Thanks for playing though. It was really fun. Hope you have a nice day.

Really, you are going to use this as a comparison. You don't compare L-UAL pilots to show how seniority works. You look at all the pilots. I already gave you the difference in seniority of 2300 pilot difference for 777 FO and you come back and compare just L-UAL pilot year difference. That's comparing apples to oranges and quite irrelevant.
Also, looking at the junior man only tells you, if you have a chance of making it into the base, and we know we have anomalies that occur. You have to look at the bottom 1/4, 1/2 and full roster comparisons and stack aircraft in SFO vs LAX, and LAX is waaaay senior. Not even going to put all the statistics down for that. You really are giving misinformation and defending yourself poorly. I'm giving realistic feedback. LAX is much more senior and will be for awhile. LAX will never catch up with seniority. And it's not just a small difference in seniority. For a new-hire trying to get to LAX, if and when they get there, they will sit on reserves for a considerably longer period. And it's not in just weeks either. Only thing you have better is the commute to Lax vs SFO, but you are a line holder for both. For many, it will be a difference of commuting to reserve vs a line and YES, that is a considerable difference. That holds true for 76T which i gave the example already that you had no reply to. Also A320 seniority in LAX is considerably worse for a newer commuter, since so many L-UAL guys that are super senior are on it. And many of those L-UAL guys have bid 737 FO or to the 756 (LCAL side) for considerable seniority bump.

Sorry but NO.

You picked the most out of whack fleet comparison between the two bases, 777 FO, which JUST HAPPENED on the last bid, and stand on that to represent the entire bases. That one bid move the needle about 2,000 seniority numbers. LAX gets a new 77 route and the needle moves there too.

These were new hires asking about getting into LAX or SFO on 3 fleets, 737, 320, 756. None of them are trying to get 777 FO on the west coast. They just want to know where to go initially on those fleets where the bottom guys are all relatively the same seniority.

For any NEW-HIRE considering the west coast. Yes, you can make it out here but the vacancies in LAX will be few and far between. SFO will have ample opportunities on 737 and 76T. If you happen to get into LAX, plan on sitting on reserve for a long time with very little movement. Our "Pilot64Golfer" has no clue on movement for those on the bottom of the A320, 737, 76T and 756 fleets. Just importantly you have to track what's going on for 777, 787 fleets to see how upward mobility is setup. There is very limited upward mobility in LAX, since 747 went away and the other wide body fleets for L-UAL guys has been neutral. The 787 fleet is what grew, and L-CAL guys jumped all over that, hence the nice junior seniority. So there will be no movement on wide bodies and keep in mind the L-CAL guys are young, so will be there for awhile. If you are thinking of going into the 756 or 76T fleets out of EWR first and then lateraling into a west coast base, then SFO will happen much quicker and your seniority will move much quicker. The bottom guy/gal on both the 756 and 76T fleets in LAX can move over to SFO and be at 60% (this doesn't include the last vacancy bid). I know this is fact since I pretty much know the bottom 10 guys on both the 76T and 756. For the 737 fleet, this will be your best opportunity in LAX. The movement will be slow as well, but gives you the quickest opportunity in LAX to get to the G-Line or get move-up lines. SFO, your seniority will move much quicker. Forget the A320 in LAX as a new-hire and if you magically get it, you will be stuck in reserves for a very very long time. We have had guys bid from LAX to SFO, even though commuting can be harder in the winter months (fog), but they are moving from a reserve line to a line holder or easily getting move-up lines. Another thing to consider is for reserves on all the fleets, you are starting to see scheduling using a lot more Short Call tactics and Field Standby's. And they are assigning Short Calls for the next day, as late as possible which really can hamper a commuter's sked.
I've been based in LAX, SFO, DEN, IAH, ORD. I almost took EWR and had been following that base movement for the last 3 years, and have great insight there as well. DCA and IAD, I do not. Hope that helps the New-Hires.

It is helpful to see both of you discuss certain aspects of new hires getting out West.

As a likely junior guy when my class starts on 3/17 I am betting 756 will be the only fleet available. As I want to get to SFO/LAX ASAP, am I able to BAT over to the 76T in SFO if there is a vacancy within the next few months or will I need to wait until a spot on the 756 opens up? Very unfamiliar with the BAT process besides knowing it allows one to transition between the 756 and 76T. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Depending on when they align the 76t and 756 fleets they could assign those 76t to new hires, as of now they are looking for volunteers in different bases, don't have the info right in front of me however. Even so, west is more senior than east on both fleets.

You need to be VERY careful about your advice to the 756 newhires regarding SFO, because you left out a key element. There IS no 756 base in SFO. Only LAX. So there are no BAT opportunities in SFO. Only LAX. With the latest 76T bid to backfill all the FO's that took Captain seats, there may not be a way into the 76T in SFO for quite awhile. They just put 150 new Captains through to SFO 737 so I suspect that will stagnate for a bit, which was the big drawer of 76T FO's off the fleet. As of now, there are NO plans to open a 756 base in SFO. Not even being talked about. The 76T SFO base continues to shrink with attrition. Talked to a senior Captain on it the other day and he's not at all sure that there will be any 756/76T base in SFO AT ALL when everything washes out and they combine the two fleet types based on what he's hearing.

The BAT bids are done within base, IE LAX 76T to 756 and vice versa. You can hold a EWR 756 position and bid to the SFO 76T, for example. The SFO 76T will be the most junior on the fleet out west. There is no SFO 756. Also when bidding, just because you do not see a vacancy for something, it does not mean you cannot get it. They have fill-in bids and good chance someone vacates and you might slide in, so have your bid in regardless for what you want.

Not true. Actually the bottom LAX 756 FO was able to get SFO 76T FO. That is correct, they are not planning on opening a SFO base, but the fleets will merge by Spring/Summer 2016 and it'll a moot point. LAX 75's will grow ( i believe it was 13 crews). SFO, will grow by LAX picking up the DH's up there, which already has been occurring over the last 3 months. SFO will pick up some extra flying as well, and when the merger occurs, then the SFO 76T flyers will do what the SFO 756 base flying was suppose to do.

Could you please point to the official source where you got all this information about what "will" be happening to the SFO 76T flying when they combine the 756/76T fleets? You are stating things as fact when there are no facts. And as for the 756/76T combining in 2016, we will see. You should know better than to tell people to plan on the United integration occurring with any semblance of remotely being on-time.

Lastly, before you say "not true" read again. Nothing I said wasn't true. There is no 756 SFO and you can't BAT in. You have to have a bid. And what I SAID was that I'm SPECULATING that the bids for 76T in SFO may be drying up because the fleet is shrinking still. The reason we just had such junior bids to the 76T FO seat in SFO was because they put through 150 Captains on the 737 in SFO. A HUGE number of 76T FO's who were looking to upgrade took the bid. With IAD 737 opening next, I suspect that you'll see the movement off the 76T fleet FO seat slow down dramatically as the fleet continues to shrink in SFO as it has been for the past 8 years.

Lastly, you seem a bit combative. Everyone here is just trying to help new hires make their best decisions possible. The fact that we can't agree on what that is should tell you that the fleet plan is fluid, changing, and almost impossible to forecast.

Bit combative? You came on and 'warned me" about the info i was giving when yours came from another 'senior CAP' and conjecture. The information on the 756/76T fleet combining was put out several months ago, so perhaps you need to read up. I'm not going re-post a link when everyone else seems to know when the schedule is. Perhaps read up in manpower planning on Flying Together. Additionally, the OET classes from just a week ago was reiterating the same info as well as the 13 new crews for LAX that was also put out previously. Now i'll agree, that nothing goes on time, and things are fluid, but that is the latest info being disseminated as of 1 week ago. I'm giving useful info for new-hires. You said you can't get into the 76T, well i gave an example of a very junior person that just did. That 'not true' was in direct response to that.

Also you missed the other posting where I stated there was no 756 SFO base. I was interrupted in that message, so I didn't see your first post or I would have replied to that directly. Thicken thy skin, sir.

Wrong again. I never said you couldn't get into 76T SFO. Your reading comprehension sucks, as does your attitude. You're not a new hire are you? Hope not. Bye. Done wasting time with you. Good luck to the new hires here and hopefully there are lots of great opportunities for you all

I love hooking my computing device up to the internet tubes. All this banter makes me really appreciate it.

New hires....don't losten to anything you read here. Just enjoy the arguments. Every single thread always and forevermore digresses to it.

Fanatic,
I'm not sure you understand how BAT bids work. You should re-read the BAT bulletins in the staffing page of flying together. Being a 756/76T guy I'd think you would understand them a bit better:/

+1....then x2, completely agree. The triple reference is pure folly.

SUX4U, to answer your question directly. It sounds like you are headed to the 756 like it or not, so that changes things a bit. If you want west coast, 737 is definitely the way to go. The 320 is junior out here, but it's shrinking or at the very least stagnant as they move the flying to IAH and EWR. But it sounds like 756 out of school, so in that case you will be looking to target LAX as there isn't any 756 out of SFO to BAT into. I don't think you can BID the 76T SFO out of newhire school as you will be frozen in the 756, but I'm not terribly up on how freezes work for newhires so find someone in the schoolhouse who is more familiar with that aspect of it.

Sounds like there might be a small bit of growth for the LAX 756 as they transition to a single fleet, but there has been no mention in SFO of any growth on the 76T or an introduction of 756 flying there- and I attended SFO OET so I can assure you it wasn't mentioned there either officially or unofficially. I've been trying to get back to the left seat of the 76T in SFO since I got bumped off it in 2009, so I've been watching for any growth. None to report, and none even hinted at. Supposed to combine the 756 and 76T summer 2016 or so, but UAL is notorious for missing planned dates. The good news is it's the best airplane I've ever flown so you will LOVE it. Hope that helps a bit. PM me if you want more thoughts, just keep in mind ALL this just best guess and speculation. The plan changes CONSTANTLY

Get used to it my friend. You'll find that some of our senior guys are full of "good" information and career advice. And they are NOT shy about sharing their "good" advice either.

If you want to retire with any money just remember these things;

1. Keep the first spouse.
2. Keep the second house
3. If it promises more than 10% ROI it's a scam run away. (Optioneer anybody?)
4. Never take financial or career advice from a pilot!

:)

(With that in mind please feel free to disregard the above message.)

Here's some financial advice you CAN take from a pilot:

Maximize your 401K deduction on day one of year two pay. Invest in US stocks and stock funds. Between your cash and the company kicker, you'll easily retire with enough money to last the rest of your days. Especially if you're in your thirties. As Mick said, time is on my (your) side.

:D

I can't tell you how many times Captains have opined on how full of shinola I was on this issue or that, when they were dead wrong. Keep your BS gain set to high and get your info from numerous sources.

Q. Wha't the difference between a pilots first wife and his second?
A. The first has real diamonds and fake orgasms.

Oh and buy physical gold for storage! The explosion of that tip from the left seat inversely tracked the chart to perfection.

According to R&I Committee 25% of all UAL pilots max their 401k pre-tax. 10% make no contributions.

Pay yourself first. Best investment advice I've ever been given.

I recently flew with a Captain who had zero socked away. Think about that. Zero and in her mid 50s.

Thank you very much for taking the time to address my question directly. If I have to sit in EWR on the 756 for a year or two, so be it. If growth happens in LAX or I can slip into IAH a year into it, that will be great. If not, I will make the best of being in NYC and flying a great fleet. I imagine I will be PM'ing you shortly with some additional questions. Thanks again!

I know perfectly how a BAT bid works. Please tell me where I'm not correct. BAT works for 756/76T switch in same base. Where's the confusion? The one example i gave was a junior person going from LAX 756 to SFO 76T. Didn't say he did a BAT bid. He was able to cross-fleet and was under two years in the current bid (actually less than 1 year), so there was no freeze. Now tell me what you're smoking? Please, by all means, tell me where I'm wrong.

Also, I have put out the most accurate info. I have "getting bumped" passing out info he got from some CAP, that got it from his maintenance man, that got it from the cook in Denver Ops. Give me a break. We have new-hires needing the latest info, right or wrong, but info that is coming from a credible source(s). Not once have I said there was going to be a 756 base opening in SFO. But 756 flying is slowing building because of LAX Deadheads going up there to fly the SFO trips that will eventually be part of that base flying AFTER the fleets merge. And for "Getting Bumped", who do you think is going to do the Hawaii flying from SFO? Please don't think the POS 737s, since they are losing a bunch of it to the 757s that we are keeping in the system. Unreal, how people want to trash info, when it doesn't coincide with theirs. I'm all for any info, but not from some "senior CAP Joe Schmo". I rather take it from what's been published or being disseminated from ORD Hqrts, or ALPA MEC guys, or Manpower planning. No one is going to disclose their "insiders". Give me a break! But don't have some new-hires relying on a cook or Smisek's dog walker. Geez.

Just wanted to add a subtle nuance to the good intel you got above . . .

From EWR 756 you might be able to BAT to EWR 76T. The most recent BAT from EWR 756 to EWR 76T went to a junior man of 11048. So if they have more BAT bids in EWR I would expect the next round to go even more junior. From EWR 76T you MIGHT be able to lateral to SFO 76T BEFORE the fleets merge because BAT bids and laterals are not covered by freezes (of course that assumes movement in SFO at some point which seems likely to me).

More importantly for you as a commuter the 76T fleet in EWR flies Europe almost exclusively so if you get stuck in EWR for a while then once you move up slightly as a line holder you will be doing mostly European trips on a 76 which both pays a little more and is more commutable than domestic 4 days on the 756.

Bottom line . . . there is more than one way to "skin a cat" so if you end up EWR 756 don't give up hope! You might still make it to SFO in a reasonably short time.

On the retirement talk front: Does United match for your 401k in addition to the automatic 16% b-fund? If so how much?

I'm expecting class in mid April. I want the 756 but was initially told only 737 and 320 slots for April. What's the chances of getting 756 or how do I get it down the road?

No 401k match

I am still trying to figure out where to get accurate info about the company and its plans after 20 years.

I think blindly throwing a dart or rolling the dice is as good as any.

Smallsacks' dog walker might be the hot ticket.

Just bid the 756 in the first vacancy bid that you can. You should get it. No freeze to go from 73/320 to the 756.

You put in a bid for 756 or 76T the moment they give you a CCS login id, and based on the known future hiring and retiring I would guess (and it's only a guess) that you would get that bid within a month or two. You might even get the award while you are still in new hire training.

In this regard the contract today is better than when I was hired. When I was hired I started as a ORD 73 FO. I wanted JFK 756 but as a new hire I was frozen and that freeze included moves from 73 to 76. Today your new hire freeze does not preclude you from taking a bid to 756 right away. I'm basing this on my interpretation of the following:

Great news Thanks!

No match, just the automatic 16%.

Whoops sorry! You beat me to it!

You are correct Joe. The only thing to be careful is we have 3 types of freezes now. Equipment Training Freeze (the one you posted), Bidding Freeze (for people who move laterally or downbid) and New Equipment Type Freeze (new category that opens up that didn't exist before). Only the Equipment Training Freeze lets you bid up at any time.

For example:

8-D-2 Bidding Freeze

8-D-2-a When a Pilot is awarded an assignment through vacancy bidding and such award does not move him from a lower-numbered band to a higher-numbered band in accordance with Section 8-D-1-d, he may be ineligible to be awarded any other vacancy for twenty-four (24) months

As always if you have questions as your ALPA reps or contract gurus.

How many 757s are staying now? Wasn't it supposed to be just the ex-Cal and PS UAL?

I'm not sure of the current number, it's still changing. I did see #14 taxi by the other day.

Last I heard, CO planes, PS, and now the overwater planes. There are some other UA with winglets that are not in this category, don't know about those.

Last report showed 15 PS, and 35 767-300.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Correct, at least, as of a month ago. No new info since.

Oh wow, so no ex-CAL now?

CoryK....those numbers are the former UAL planes, 15 PS and 35 767-300. The CAL planes are staying.