Thoughts on BAT?
 

Just wondering others opinions on the BAT.
Seeing that both "types" will be based in EWR come January, and have to cover all three airports. (Although the "756" doesn't have any scheduled flying out of the other two-YET! We'll see what happens with Jan.'s scheduled flying).

It's a total screw job for the CAL side (again) that allows UAL side pilots to exercise the super seniority (reference the egregious SLI "award") to "bump" relatively junior CAL side pilots without the company having to incur training costs of displacements.

Basically it allows for UAL pilots to get into a base without there being openings while simultaneously saving the company money in training costs.

Once again another screw job by ALPA and for ALPA....what's new? This crap ought to be illegal but I suspect they'll get away with it as usual.

The JFK 67T is a small base. I assure you that there is a much larger group of senior United pilot elsewhere waiting for vacancy bids into EWR B756, that because of this BAT agreement, they will never get to see.

Isn't the 320 also coming to ewr as well?

Vs protecting all the cal pilots who gained seats in the past three years. Sweet jesus, the list essentially went relative seniority on a 2010 snapshot.

One of the few things I enjoyed about this place were the pilots I shared the cockpit with. I guess all good things must come to to an end.

I don't see in IAH too many LUAL guys coming to 756. It's a shrinking fleet, hawaii is going to lax, all we are getting is BOG! The 76t hits all South America productive routes. Plus you will now get to carry a flight bag.

But then again what do I know? I know it shouldn't take until midnight of the 17th to see my award. Schedules should be out within 2 days of closing. There is no reason for the wait. But I've been screaming that since day 1. Guess some things never change

Super seniority from the egregious SLI award? I, along with others, were placed below CAL guys that were hired AFTER us.
As far as getting into another base, can't do that with the BAT.
Also, if a senior pilot wanted to get to EWR 756, they could bid it, and hold it if the seniority was there.
Anyway, I guess what I was asking originally was, if anyone was thinking of doing the BAT or just gonna wait. I was gonna wait, but if the 756 has to cover all 3 airports, thinking of going 76T.?

BTW, have a question in to the planning department and union about how three pilots that were recently hired and awarded 756/76T slots, were awarded 737 EWR in the last award. Thought there was a training freeze for 2 years? I could be a lot more senior on the 737, but didn't put it in my bid, assuming I still had a freeze...

Well at least there is something you can do and do often - give every spare cent you can muster to the lawsuit !! Make sure you give till it hurts !!

:rolleyes:

I should have been more specific...when I said base I meant Base/Equip/Status. You are correct that you cannot move to another pilot domicile, only within the domicile you are currently staffed.

I'm surprised more UAL, super senior pilots are not more up in arms about this as it prevents true seniority based bidding.

Regarding the SLI, while I concede it's all relative, we all know this was a windfall for the UAL side and whether or not you want to admit that or not is up to you. Just know that I, and others like me, know you know it so don't insult my intelligence.

Hmmm......

I bet there are just as many (%) L-UAL pilots who think it was a windfall for CAL.

So it must have been somewhat reasonably fair if everybody is upset that the other side "won"?

(And no, I don't think it was a perfect, or even optimal, award.)

Well, I didn't mean for this to turn into yet another seniority/SLI argument thread.
Just wanted to get opinions on how some felt about how now EWR based 756 pilots will have to cover all three airports, and if it had any influence on whether to do BAT or not...

I don't spend much time on this forum, but the CAL whining about "super seniority" in this thread got me out of the wood work. I was hired at UAL in 1996. I was integrated with CAL 1998 hires. Tell me again how I got super seniority? These pilots are mostly younger and all were hired after me and will now be senior to me for the rest of my career. Yet, I'm not whining about how CAL screwed us. We ALL got screwed in our own special way, that's what makes this SLI even remotely fair. Get over it.

Listen man, you're going to say what you're going to say, and we'll say what we're going to say, but if you even remotely think that this SLI thing was argued and won on solid arguments and merits you're off you're rocker. This was about ALPA from the get go and just be thankful you worked for the airline with the larger pilot group. Had you not ALPA would have screwed you over with the same vigor as the CAL side got screwed.

Having said that, those same guys hired on in 98 you are complaining about were able to hold 756 CA, what position were you holding the day before the SLI award?

This was the most egregious SLI "award" in the history of the airlines and you know it and I know it. As for the get over it comment....easy for the windfall side to say huh? I'll do what I believe is the right thing to do....not what you believe.

As a cal guy the isl was better then I thought it would be but that is just me at my position.

Consider yourself "lucky". There are UAL 97 hires with CAL 2005 hires senior to them.
Again, this is not a SLI thread. Wolfman, what can I say... follow Shreks advice. If you feel you were that bent over, join the lawsuit, work a bunch of OT and contribute that extra cash to the fund...

I replied with my thoughts about the BAT but I also contributed a little background as to why I believe it to be what it is. If you find that intolerable then I suggest you don't read my posts.

Again, regarding all you're well meant comments about how I should "get over it" and "join the lawsuit", you might find this difficult to believe with your background as a legacy United, but I'll do what I believe is best for me and my family, not what a United pilot thinks I should do.

Of all the CAL pilots I've spoken with since this whole debacle, you are only about the 2nd or 3rd pilot out of 4200 to state this opinion.

Glad you think it worked out okay for you, but I hope you realize you are in the extreme minority opinion as a former CAL pilot.

Like I said, this place, for more reasons than one, will suck for years if not decades.

If we're lucky. If not it will be BK, shrinkage, 8000 active pilots, and then split between DAL and the new AA.

Doesn't sound too bad...

True enough.

I'd go Delta...

1)What does the bottom guy at IAH 757 fly? 2)Also, how much does he get used?
I imagine the flying on the 767 is better so easy choice to do the BAT training. Disclaimer; I am not on the property and do not know much at this point but will return next year.

Just because you know that we know?? Just stick with what you actually know and your own opinions.

I would do it if I was in Houston. Only one airport, and the 76 variety of flying.
Being based in EWR, you have to cover 3 airports ($$$$ tolls and traffic) with 76T fleet for sure, and possibly the 756 if they start juggling the schedules in Jan. Which they might do. Looks they going to be swapping 20 FOs from the 756 to the 76T.

I'll do what I darn well please chief.

Well okay then thats settled, go get em chief!

This has become a depressing thread. As an IAH 76T kinda guy I will welcome the new IAH756'ers into the fleet. GRU, EZE, LIM, LHR x 3. I'll buy the beer!

Rumor is that we are pulling out of Argentina 100%. IAH-EZE is the last route to be discontinued in the 1st qtr of next year.

Whatever. Do what you please, just get in line buddy (behind me) :cool:

The BAT is good. THere are no "sides", there is just United Airlines. The 756 and 76T are not yet one, but they will be. Until then, we have the BAT. Seniority rules. Happy BAT bidding.

SLed

although I've come to understand that many of you guys on the forums believe that it is.....this was never up for debate.

arrogant and pompous....also typical.

I m not far from the bottom on the 756 in iah:
756 flying is shrinking fast.. 190+ lines in nov, 166 for dec.
we do a mix of west cost to Hawaii soon to go to the lax 756 domicile, a few UK trips from IAD soon to go to the iad 756 domicile. That will probably leave the iah 756 with some domestic hub to hub type flying and very occasionally some Hawaii or Europe trip via the east cost The plan for summer 2014 flying shows no intl flights for the 756 out of iah.
The 76t has been limited to a few 763 intl flights (lhr, lim, gru and eze) the december bid added to few domestic flights as well.

As far as how much reserves are used.. It depends..over the past 4 months my range was from low 80's hrs to nowhere near guarantee.
( 32 hrs so far for nov )

If you re looking for a good variety and intl flying, ewr is the place to go.

I wouldn t be surprised to see the bottom iah 76t fos come over to the 756 side because the bottom 76t fo would bid about 35% on the 756.

Aw, jeeze. Thanks LEE!!!!

As if the thread wasn't depressing enough already! :(

BC

Your whining and crying about the SLI months later is egregious. Why not just double up on the lawsuit payments?

Still in the system for May. But hey, they can transfer those sales to a Deathstar carrier. I miss that place.

Thanks WS. I want to be in IAH, so EWR is out. Given my deal I will go to the 737. Same pay, growing fleet. The flying had to be great or major over staffed to do the 757. Seems to be neither.

Exsqeeze me? Baking Powder? It was the decision of THREE Arb's - none of which had any axe to grind. They simply ignored the "find the bb under the cup" that Jay P was playing and decided solely on the facts and on fairness. We got guys who went below LESS Senior uCAL pilots. They ignored the 787 Fence ratio's(proposed by uUal and said for simplicity that it would be a straight 5 yr fence(uCAL proposal) or until the 25th 787 is delivered (Regardless of the fact that uCAL only had 18 on order) - A windfall to uCAL. Take off your rose-colored glasses and realized BOTH parties got screwed in one way or another, so lets shake hands and start being a team.

Snapshot showed lots of batty movement in the NE