LAX 747 displacements
 

December 17, 2013

Dear LAX 747 Captains and First Officers,

We previously announced that we plan to fly our LAX SYD route with 777 aircraft. As a result, we are closing the 747 base effective with the April flying month. We will displace all (20) 747 Captains and all (55) 747 First Officers out of the Los Angeles domicile effective April 1, 2014. Because the L-UAL 747 fleet is being phased out of Los Angeles, each pilot will utilize their own pilot seniority number in the displacement process. Under the provision of Section 8-E of the Agreement, this letter constitutes formal notice to all (20) 747 Captains and all (55) 747 First Officers on the attached list that their assignments are discontinued, and they are displaced effective April 1, 2014. The pilots listed on the attached sheet are required to submit displacement bids in CCS, using the procedures below by 1200 Chicago time, January 6, 2014. Training assignments may begin as early as February 2014.

Just as long as I can get bumped to Lav truck commandante in LA, the spilled blue juice shouldnt even show on the new duds! Winning!

Since all the 747 FOs can hold Guppy Captain by about 4,000 seniority numbers in LAX I wonder how many of the 55 will bid that.

I'm sure a bunch will just go to SFO and fly the 747 out of there. But I think we see about 4 or 5 bump to the Guppy left seat since they will be senior lineholders.

I bet AT LEAST half of them bump to 737 Captain. 70% is my gut feeling

Seems like a lot more than 5 will want to assume their rightful place.

LOOK OUT BELOW!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

And this is just the begining......

"Seems like a lot more than 5 will want to assume their rightful place. "

No you guys don't get how good the LAX SYD trip is, I guarantee you many will bid the 777 right seat just to chase it.

We were told that the company wouldn't bump any of them, remember?

Another wrong prediction.

Then that base will be overstaffed, and they will bump, etc.

Anybody on the property for more than 12 years has seen this movie, twice. People will bump to different things for different reasons. Some will try to get a couple of bumps out of it.

Maybe if you're lucky, you'll be one of the people that get bumped!!:rolleyes:

I know, you could get yourself bumped!!:eek:

That would be lovely :D

The timing of this announcement seems to coincide with about 70-80 retirements. I highly doubt that someone flying the 747 to SYD will want to give up all the days off and QOL to take 737 Captain. Funny you say rightful place as it looks like most of not all could have already held captain yet chose not to. Not really sure what their rightful place is?

The most senior FO's getting displaced have the seniority to fly B747/B777 Captain. My guess is that upgrade might not be an option for some of these guys.

Agreed. And, the 747 schedule/life style is so addictive, most will not bid the 737 and have to go back to work, let alone remember how to fly a plane. I suspect most will bump into SFO 747 or 777. The commute LAX-SFO is pretty good.

That would be great. I'd be a senior lineholder as a guppy Captain.

70-80 retirements, but not in LA. So guys aren't going to fill seats in EWR or IAH or ORD. Theyare staying in LA. We've been through this game a few times since 2001. Big bumps, then big movement, then big bumps. So we've all played it and are good at it.

But do not think that these 55 pilots are all retiring in the next 4 months. Maybe 2 of them. The rest....LOOK OUT BELOW...

Also LA 777 is getting big because the SEA pilots who bumped there, so that base will get a bump as well. All of them are in the top 6,000 on the seniority list, so they can go about anywhere.

^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^

LAX-SYD F/O on the 400 is at the peak of the pyramid for QOL for L-UAL commuters. Many, if not most 400 F/O's are commuters, and have been here for a VERY long time.

Rightful place???? LAX 737 is not even a close second for a commuter, however DEN 737 might attract a few.

The company will be putting out snapshots, so we will soon see.

SP

You keep saying that you have played this game before. What you fail to realize is that the game has changed. At old United, bumps were part of an overall reduction in pilots and most recently happened during a period of time with very few retirements. Today, you have bumps taking place at the same time as massive retirements, as well as a time with slight growth in overall staffing.

The playing field has changed dramatically. The company can ill-afford an all out bump-a-thon. Here is my prediction:

20 747 Capt bid wb Capt in either LAX or SFO
3 747 Cap bid Den 756 Capt.
2 bid LAX 737 CA.

747 FO's:

18 bid LAX 737 Capt.
20 bid LAX 777 FO
15 bid SFO 747 FO
7 bid SFO 777 FO

This distribution, coupled with retirements will not necessitate further bumps.

What does the LAX-SYD trip look like for the 744? How many days, and how many of these trips per month to fill the schedule?

3-day, 2 leg, 28 credit hour trips, 14-15 hour legs means double crew.
About a 24 hour layover in Sydney, with a 6 hour break enroute each way. Lines are built with 3 trips with the occasional carry-in. 83 hours for 9 days (6 legs) of flying is pretty attractive, which 737 domicile offers that?

I hope you are right. I don't want to see anyone lose their seat.

The only thing is that we have had bumps for three straight months. And this thread is about bumps as well. So you can't say there aren't any bumps, when that what is happening now.

I'd be at 15% BES on the 787 in either IAH or LAX. I hope it stays that way when the fence drops in 2 years.

Are they still 3 days or switched now to 4?

I can't disagree with these numbers. They look reasonable.

The only thing is that LAX 777 FO just had a bunch of former SEA guys go there, and now 20 more? This base isn't a huge base. All 25 of these FOs on the 777 would be extra, and there would be a bump from that. Its going to trickle down.

Same with 18 guppy Captains in LAX. and 20 more 777 Captains in LAX or SFO.

I believe the IRO on the 737 dies with FAR 117 except Guam

This are both true, however the company has a few options, including:

1. Over staff 777 FO in lax and have some excess pilots fly iro pairing that dh both ends out of base. Not efficient but certainly better than tdy'ing 75 747 pilots.

2. The over staffing in the 737 will not occur if the company runs a vacancy bid and increases the staffing level in lax accordingly. In this scenario, all current 737 capt that are bumped down will not be displaced.

I think both of these scenarios are preferable for the comaony than starting bump-fest.

Talking to several LAX 400 f/os, they say that most are planning to come to SFO 400.

Maybe they are just trying to scare me, since they are almost all senior to me. (If so, it's working.) :D

I agree. Just so you are aware, the company has not done that in the past, they have had bumps as few as 3 pilots in a BES. The "extra pilot" myth was obviously not true since you don't furlough 1,400+ pilots and still somehow be overstaffed. They've always run the bases pretty tight.

Of course anything can happen. I'd prefer both of these as well to bumps.

Should be a 4 day. 10PM departure on Monday for example lands you in SYD at 7AM on Weds morning. 32 hour layover. 3PM departure from SYD on Thursday lands back in LAX 9AM Thursday. I personally can not imagine a better trip for QOL. Late report, long layover in an awesome city and early arrival back in base on go home day.

So far pretty close. Latest snapshot shows most of the Captains going to 777 Captain in LAX which is going to cause bumps there. Some of the FOs are going to 756 Cap or 76T Cap. The rest to SFO on the 747.

So far nobody bidding to the guppy, but only about 1/3 of the pilots show up on the snapshot because they have not submitted their choice yet.

They are all staying west coast except one FO going 756 Captain in EWR.

pilot64

First I assume you are bragging about your golf score?

Ok the real question is considering the contract does not allow for displacement bumps why do you keep insisting there will be some?

Where's the "snapshot?"

The displacement (surplus) allows a pilot to bump ("be bumped" more accurately) into any fleet/seat/domicile that his seniority can hold. The company determines if a surplus in a fleet/seat/domicile exists, then uses the displacement process to level manpower. It's just UAL verbiage, obviously "displacement" meant something different at l-Cal.

It's time you get with the program and learn what things are called here, you work for United now! :D

Working Together>My Department>Staffing>Displacements

OK Here's one problem with golfer's posts

"Other than the affected category, no pilot can be displaced from his/her category by virtue of a displacement award."

So where's the bumping?

Second we exUAL pilots don't have "Working Together" or at least I can't find it.

OK found the link but it fails on the Flying Together site. Great IT!

Because we have had them every month for the last 3 months?

Maybe that's why.