Wearing the hat, why?
 

So the company has admitted that the hat brass is flawed, with 'horns' sticking up... the pins can't be secured once pushed through the hat material.....

I was told there was a pilot (CAL :rolleyes:) who posted a video on how to 'fix' the company's blunder with a power drill. UFB.

By wearing the hat you are telling the company that you accept their failures, and it doesn't matter. That they can provide substandard products and the pilots are indifferent.... Nice precedent....

(side note: personally I like the hat for the image, wish we could wear it, but not under these terms....)

Guys, this isn't hard.....

Really? This is your thing? The "horns" on the hat?

Ah nevermind...

I don't even have one yet. That's my excuse.

Personally I dont think wearing or not wearing the hat makes any type of statement to the company. To our customers, and they do notice, I believe it shows a level of professionalism and pride in our profession. I do believe wearing your ALPA pin makes a big statement to the company, and they do take note of this. Management knows what the pin is and what it represents. Wearing your ALPA pin is a symbol of unity, resolve and pride towards our profession and what "we" stand for.

Well, I hate hats! Everybody wore hats when they went outdoors, but that was the way it was until the 60's and now it's rare to see anyone wearing a hat. They are out of style, unless you like gangsta rappers. BUT, as long as I receive a paycheck from United Airlines, I will wear their stupid hat. Heck, I really dislike those stupid broad strips we are forced to wear, I feel like I'm a doorman at some exclusive hotel. Hope someday we go back to the very stylish and understated stripes that were on the old sUal uniforms.

"...With reference to your second point, when you say souls don't develop because people get distracted..."

Nicely stated.

One day the l-UAL guys are gonna have to stop with the "burn it down" mentality. I understand there is a tremendously long history of injustice with you guys, but it's time to get past that. Either get on board, or don't. But don't poison the airline with bad mojo.

Some of us want to make a go of this

What you want has zero bearing on the success of failure of the enterprise as long as the operation is being horribly mismanaged and the passengers are leaving. No one wants to burn anything down. We are all tied to UAL until we retire. Your characterization of some pilots criticisms is inaccurate. But I agree that the airline is being poisoned and that UAL has lost its mojo.

One day the l-CAL guys are gonna have to stop with the "scab and management helpers" mentality. I understand there is a tremendously long history of indifference/acquiescence with you guys, but it's time to get past that. Either get on board, or don't. But don't poison the airline with bad mojo.

Some of us want to make a go of this


There, fixed it for you...

From 1995 - 9/11 United hired over 6000 pilots. They pretty much had their choice of who to hire. The vast majority of us came to UAL with a great attitude. Years and years of getting kicked in the nuts jaded a lot of us, if not in fact, most of us. I have never been treated as poorly in life as I have been by UAL.

No hat, sorry. Ever.

Hi Snarge, why are you throwing hand grenades at our combined pilot group? I've been with UAL for nearly 28 years, and in that time, I have witnessed more pulling in opposite directions then at any other job I have been an employee. These CAL pilots have been with us maybe a year or so and they can see it. They are not blind to the stick-in-the-mud mentality which is visible everywhere you look. I don't mean to imply that we should simply rollover for Jeffie like the CAL pilots have apparently been doing. It's not SCAB behavior, it's all they know. We need to set the standard in an honest way that forces the company to work within OUR UPA and hold their feet to the fire (to the written word of out contract) and stop all this CR@p thats has been going on since 1985.

I don't know where to begin... been on the CAL side for over 18 months... nice guys to fly with.... just ready for them to man up.... the independent contractor act is wearing thin...

I keep reading here on APC about the UAL guys and our burn it down mentality. How we are pulling on the wrong end of the rope. How cynical we are HOWEVER.....

The worst, most incompetent, inefficient hubs I've ever flown out of in my career and three major airlines later are IAH and EWR. I heard how technologically behind yet EVERY SINGLE I.T. "upgrade" that the CAL boys have introduced are archaic NIGHTMARES far worse than what they replaced! Our systems were without a doubt old and needed upgrade but they worked WAY better and were WAY more efficient and user friendly than the crop that LCAL has shoved down our throats. CCS is a freakishly user unfriendly system that needs tons of training which we never got, to understand. Shares is a flop of unimaginable proportions. The new crew scheduling system is the seventh ring of he!! in regards to the end user.

Old UAL was never run this bad, it never had these kinds of operational problems. Management would actually listen to it's key people on the ground and fix some issues, not all but some. This new "We run the airline you fly the planes" thing simply ain't working out too good is it? But somehow in the minds of some of you guys all of these problems are caused by UAL pilots and wearing a hat is going to fix it somehow?

This is a management problem people not a pilot problem. Is it really that hard to understand?

When you have IAH guys wearing no ALPA pin and old CAL wings on the overcoat... there is a mentality problem... let it go... don't let the CALways ruin the mojo of the airline....

The CAL guys no know different... but the two scabs sure like the PS First Class travel to/from training... even from my ALPA rep.. former CAL... when I raise an issue... its just apologies for management...

"It's always been like this...."
"That's the way the company does it...."

I guess CAL is running UAL now....

Like I said Snarge - it's all they know. And they had their perfect storm when they elected JP to represent them - shocking! But wait, we had our perfect storm when Ferg was representing us(Before my time but I heard all about it). We learned, they (CAL) need to learn and become comfortable with the way we enforce our contract. It's all about respect and Jeffie will choke when he respects us but he WiLL respect us. Wear your ALPA Pins Proudly!

..........

Hey Snarge, aren't you on the 73? If so, what % are you bidding? I just like to know the guys I'm flying with. Won't be hard to tell if you talk like this at work. Or do you just talk like this on the keyboard? :rolleyes:

Krudawg and Snarge, first you say don't throw grenade's and then you launch a couple!! :confused: We DO KNOW the difference!! That's why we don't want to act like YOU two!! ( I already have 3 teenager's at home I don't need 100's more at work!!) Just look at your screen names "Krudawg and Snarge" they just sound old and crusty!! I think what most CAL guys (ME) have a problem with is not enforcing the contract it's the belief that if ALL problems were majicaly solved with our operation and contract, guys like you would complain that there wasn't anything to complain about!! :eek: I GET IT, you have a lot of pride for the old UAL just like I have pride for the old CAL, I don't need help or a history lesson!! They are both gone, get over it!! You don't demand respect you earn IT!

Lots of Vacancies on the Airbus!! I think it's time you go enjoy yourself without all us independent types!! ;)

ALPA pin is still in the trash, where it will remain.

What's up with the hats these days, are they optional or required to wear?

Thanks for the reply...

The teenager was the old man who rage ranted for four days after ISL... that was a brutal trip... but we got through it...

Define 'pride for the old CAL'. I need to know what that is... understanding goes along way....

BenWarren stated above, ALPA pin is in the trash... As a CAL guy what do you do about that? Indifference?

ALPA will nevertheless keep lobbying hard in DC on your behalf to stack the deck in favor of you having a job here in the years ahead.

As explained in my original post... some critical thinking is required....

I think policy is that it won't be required until 15 April, which really means 15 Oct since domestic summer trips don't require it. Many just don't have it yet. Mine was ordered in July and I have been told 3 weeks for delivery over the past 5 months. When I get it, I'll wear it.

FOM requires it. Union says company won't enforce policy until everyone has a hat and they've solved the horns issue.

Don't forget to button that jacket when in public view and you will "look real sharp."

Not directed at you APC. But...

http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2008/04/nerocover1.jpg

Guess you never fly out of SFO or ORD :rolleyes:....

The absolute laziest, most incompetent group of workers in the system hands down...IAH and EWR are not even close

This.
We (UAL) got real problems. This hat stuff is a pleasant distraction.

Pretty close but I have disagree after multiple issues with incurable STUPID especially in IAH. Three major issues in particular and very recently.

Oh great, another "richard" measuring contest.

Honestly all of the bases suck and so do most of the out stations. EWR and IAH have gotten worse since the merger, and I assume that is also the case at IAD, ORD, SFO because I can't believe they could have been that bad pre merger. DEN and CLE have been ok. Cle has been great for years. Who ever is in charge there needs to be moved to a bigger base.

I love this great unified pilot group. I see this in every hub, on every plane, and every forum on the internet::D
Ok everybody now:

Best and most appropriate
 

Yours was the best posting I have seen. Kumbaya brother.

Is that a wreath he's wearing?!

I had mine fixed. Cost the company eighteen bucks.

I look great.

You angry guys make me laugh. (At you, not with you.)

Lots of my fellow aviators are also amused also. Our pilots have a lot to learn from each other. But guys with attitudes as bad as yours are going to miss all of the fun stuff, and are every bit as large a threat to our culture as Jeff is.

I'm glad you like your look. Take the blinders off and take a look around.

I am concerned with our culture, but Jeff will do a better job of uniting the groups than anything you and I can do. I'm less concerned about culture than my future and my job if Jeff stays in charge. Yes, maybe that's why we are soooo jaded. I don't see a future if he stays much longer. :eek:

Im scared about that too, Dave.

But you and I have a lot of power. Especially when it comes to how we chose to respond. If we set aside the ego and make an honest effort, there's a lot we can learn from each other.