It is done, but I have a difficult time with people of any former-pant-color gloating and/or demanding thanks ?!?!

You say get Unified yet you subtly bash CAL pilots and say how great the UAL way was?.... Yet you know nothing of what it was actually like to work at CAL, you want to be unified, drop the Old UAL bullcrap, that's a dead, broken, long gone airline. Most of the ex UAL guys I fly with like the CAL side better, it's a much more pleasant place to work. If you want unification let go of the past yourself.

Well I do know a little about how "the CAL side" works as I have a whole 6 weeks under my belt as a 756 FO. So far this is what I've had to listen to:

1) No CAL pilot ever wanted this merger.
2) United was like the Titanic; it kept running into the iceberg over and over.
3) It's all about the W2.
4) You know what junior CAL pilots have learned from all this? It's better to be a SCAB because they have the best careers.


and then there's the other trivia:

1) no one knew about escape routes over Greenland including LCA.
2) cockpit had numerous items worth writing up, but "we don't worry about that small stuff"
3) all flight planning done at the hotel without any FO input
4) crew desk took away a flying id and converted me to IRO for another FOs IOE. That's a grievance, but apparently it is standard operation at CAL and the FOs don't complain.
5) 78 hours min a month for bid range versus 70 on UAL side. For the W2 worshippers that's great but for those of us happy to make our minimum who want to enjoy life at home that's two days lost at work.
6) meals: your specific crew meal doesn't exist and you eat when the FAs finish their service. None of this eating first crap. The pilots are last.
7)Most guys bring their own minitel because minitels aren't always in the cockpit. Apparently they kept getting stolen and now the company has taken to putting a metal collar on the wires and screwing them into the sidewall to keep them from getting stolen but meantime most CAL pilots seem to think it is their responsibility to bring their own minitel.
8) International law prohibits flying ECON over the Atlantic but that's how they do it at CAL. Manage ECON to stay close but not exactly on speed because they told ATC that they agreed ATC could give them the speed but ATC couldn't tell them HOW to fly that speed so using ECON is ok. and of course CAL saves sooooo much gas by playing around with ECON the whole way across instead of just putting in .80. Yeah .80 would be too easy :rolleyes:


So far NOT impressed and actually very disappointed that I already ran into Captains that are willing to bring politics into the cockpit. To me not so professional and it will make for a sadly tortuous career based in EWR if they are the "norm". Hopefully I just got unlucky on my first couple flights and things will get better. At least that's what I'm hoping . . .

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're not alone. Most guys flying with those guys are using basic CLR and not letting them bend the airplane or hurt anybody. They other stuff is an ego problem - just don't let it go so far as to compromise safety.

"6) meals: your specific crew meal doesn't exist and you eat when the FAs finish their service. None of this eating first crap. The pilots are last"

Not on my jet!

When the crew eats is part of my standard Purser briefing (OK upper deck crew). Oh I forgot they're exUAL FAs.

"7)Most guys bring their own minitel because minitels aren't always in the cockpit. Apparently they kept getting stolen and now the company has taken to putting a metal collar on the wires and screwing them into the sidewall to keep them from getting stolen but meantime most CAL pilots seem to think it is their responsibility to bring their own minitel."

If missing this is a standard write up and no-go item. Headsets are mandatory up to FL180.

Sunvox, since you are the at the airplane doing all the checks while the Captain is flight planning I would have authorized you to write up the missing required items, like minitels, so we could depart on time. Cockpit checks are cockpit checks.

"basic CLR"

UAL doesn't teach "Basic CLR" any more. It is an FAA Approved CRM and we now call it "TEM." Of course we forgot to add a 9-1 or 1-1 Captain is a "threat!"

Sunvox,

Sorry to hear. Doesn't one of the atlantic charts say to fly a fixed mach on the nat tracks? Regarding the maintenance items, I'd say he could write it up or call the fodm. His choice. Bet you a beer he backs down.

So now your going to do an "AL Gore" and tell the world CAL invented the first CLR program. Your dummied down version(trm) keeps the crew going in circles like gerbils instead of address the real problem. And yes it can be the CAPTAIN or the captain.

Can't comment on any of your other stuff other to say it's not surprising and I'm sure the names are familiar to everyone but I call bull**** on this. Not only is it NOT standard, for years they bought your seat if they needed it, but I can name at least ten people I personally know who ARE "complaining." IMHO, sometimes something a little stronger than a grievance is necessary to hammer a point home.

I flew the 777 for several years. That's ^^^ all a crock of sh%t. Your ego is getting in the way of reality. Stop lying.

I've flown with a ton of incredibly smart talented pilots at CAL,that's a crock of S#%t,stop spreading lies

Hope

Oops you misread what I wrote. I'm an ex UAL pilot who was hired just before the crash in PDX which caused CLR to be invented. CLR was a UAL copyrighted program mandated by the FAA as a result of two pilots letting an egomaniac pilot run the airplane out of fuel. The UAL course used to take several days and many of us took it at the Cherry Creek Inn.

CRM is the FAA, non-copyrighted name and all US certified airlines must have some approved program in place. TEM is the latest dumbed down version of CRM with nothing about captains and crew members fitting into the 1-9 matrix of command types.

Sunvox I don't know who you have been flying with, but I've spent over 7 years on the ewr 756 fleet and have flown with some of the most professional men and women of my career!
Maybe you should go back to the 76t wide body base in JFK if it's that bad? I'm so sick of hearing how bad the cal side is and how wonderful LUal was. I wish this merger didn't happen either fwiw
No one I know admires a scab! Junior or senior....

Sunvox is not talking about Scabs. He is talking about flying. Yes, it is very different on either side. I don't have any experience on the CO side, he does. Until the CO guys fly with the UA side, you guys really don't have any perspective, nor should you be commenting on the UA side until you do.

Level heads should prevail. He is only stating his personal experience. Not rumor or innuendo. Lies, I think, at worst, is an exaggeration, and at best not true at all. Please refrain from commenting on something you don't have any experience with. Many times, the start to a solution is recognizing there is a problem.

Really, I lied? This is the problem with some CAL guys. You are a perfect example of the stubborn insensitive and classless CAL type that simply doesn't want to listen.

Joe Peck
u164511
(914)-656-5418

Call me. I'll give you the name of the two LCAs I flew with; you can ask the first one yourself if what I quoted him as saying is true. As to the facts:

CAL 764 Fleet doesn't fly ECON on the tracks?
EWR 756 doesn't have a bid range of 78-90 versus 70-90 for EWR 76T or IAD 76T?
The minitels are not screwed in and I wasn't missing a minitel on two of my flights already?
The throttle console wasn't cracked and numerous trim items missing in two of the 764 cockpits.
One captain didn't do all the flight planning at the Milan hotel. I made that up too.



What the heck dude. Why would I lie about bull crap like this. Your unwillingness to engage and to simply start with a totally inflammatory remark screaming I'm a liar is classless and clueless. Put your money where your mouth is and call the LCAs yourself.


For the record I bought the beer on the first flight for the two IROs who were awesome guys, and on my second flight I bought the dinner for the whole crew in Milan to celebrate my first trip off OE. Don't believe me? Call and I'll give you the name of the captain flying when I bought dinner for the crew, but you should call soon as he is retiring in a couple weeks.

I had been told this happened before at CAL if not I stand corrected. It is happening now, as was shown by the Council 11 email on this very topic, and unfortunately I was not able to file a Grievance because I got sick over that time period. Darn RAS keeps flaring up when I get stressed and makes it impossible to speak.

I never said ALL CAL pilots are unprofessional. As I said above the IROs I have flown with were "awesome guys". I also very carefully explained that two of the pilots I flew with so far were a) impolite to me and b) not quite as knowledgable as I have come to expect. I went on to say that I realize I may have simply been "unlucky" on a couple of my first trips as I was paired with SCAB captains who clearly did not like the merger as you have so clearly just agreed with in such a nice manner.

So which part of my trivia is not correct? ECON? Minitels? What? Instead of telling me how much you hate UAL why not respond to the individual issues. You know I might have been willing to concede that UAL has it's share of captains that flight plan at the hotel and many new FOs don't know about Greenland Oxygen diversion information. But No. Rather than engage and discuss you're simply gonna tell me I should go back to UAL and leave you alone. Great. Real professional.

I flew EWR 756 fo for 13 years and can remember maybe three Capt 's of a certain vintage that at times would attempt to circumvent SOP. All the others were true pros and managed the cockpit in great fashion and adhered to SOP.
Flying the NAT's in ECON mode is 100% legal and the most efficient.
Since day one I had no problem with the FA's feeding revenue BF customers before the cockpit. To put yourself above smells of entitlement.
As a Capt. I too will look at the flight plan in my hotel room before getting on the van, but the official briefing is in the FPA. This allows briefing the FA's early about flt time/turb etc before the pax board. (When we're all on the same van).
I know of several fo's whose seats have been turned into IRO for training and they're all grieving it.
To bombastically claim the incompetence of a whole group of Pilots is a little too much to swallow....

Sorry, I must have! Who would have thought we'd look back on that with fond memories. Went through CCI with PanAm PAC merger group. Entertaining to say the least. As a new hire, I held my own or at least that's how I remember it.

Well if CO guys have flown with Sunvox or any other UA guy wouldn't that mean they have flown with the UA side? Thus shouldn't they then be able to comment on the UA side?

I did not once use the term SOP.


ECON is SPECIFICALLY prohibited by international law. This is being elevated to the highest levels and I can't wait to see what happens.

Take a look at the other forum where there is a long thread on planning in the hotel. Suffice to say we must agree to disagree. I find that behavior incredibly unprofessional, unsafe, and harmful to our career.

You are heading on a 10 hour flight. Asking to put a meal in the cockpit at level off seems a small price to pay to keep the pilots happy and thereby presumably acting at their best. Seems almost trivial, and I honestly can't believe you would take the other side, but again we will have to agree to disagree.

Bombastic:

adjective
his bombastic speeches could send thousands into the streets: pompous, blustering, turgid, verbose, orotund, high-flown, high-sounding, overwrought, pretentious, ostentatious, grandiloquent; informal highfalutin, puffed up; rare fustian.


Not feeling it. Just pointed out some observations, and it appears to have ticked off a few folks.

Never once did I say ALL or EVERY. Just said this has been my experience in the first 6 weeks. AND for that matter it was in response to Moomba saying it's all peaches and cream over at CAL and you all have no idea what you are talking about because you've never flown here.

I am, and I have.

P.S. Except for the first captain I flew with all the crew members have been fantastic. It's the processes that are imperfect, and I'm sure when the tables turn we'll hear plenty the other way around.

A LCA not being aware of the Greenland Terrain chart is unacceptable but the oxygen page I think you are referring to is new to the WOM for us. If I remember correctly, it specifically refers to certain L-UAL aircraft by tail number as being unable to proceed north of 68N in the event of a depressurization. I don't have my iPad handy but apologies if this is incorrect. It certainly behooves anyone reading this thread to take a look at that section.

I have been flying with LUAL FO's for the last 3 years. So, I guess according to your rules I can comment on this subject!! First, I believe unless Sunvox is totally clueless (:confused:) it was a COMPLETE flame bait post!! Were there weak/strong LUAL pilots that I flew with? Absolutely!! Just like Sunvox is experiencing with the LCAL side!! I just think posting something on a public forum that will do nothing but be divisive is counter productive!! Therefore, all I have posted is cultural things which I do believe have been the common theme in the cockpit! If Sunvox were smart he could do what I do when politics are brought up on the Flt deck ignore or change the subject!! Not fun, but works!!:eek:

I believe that you are one of the most divisive posters on this forum. You've already said what you think of Continental people several times. Now, YOU want ME on board?

Consider yourself "divided and owned".

Slick ties, scabs, and lawsuits. Enjoy your career fellas.

you choose spite over unity?

What do you really expect from the LUAL side. We had the poorly handled USAir/AmWest merger and a very successful Delta/NW merger. In hopes of a process that would be more fair to all, both sides agreed to the Delta/NW model. The CAL side, under JP did just about everything to turn it into a USAir experience. You, the rank and file at CAL, did nothing to stop JP. By all indications, you were supporting JP's working with Jeff to gain advantage in money, seat theft, delay in JCBA and going outside the merger policy to steal seniority. And with all that you expect the LUAL side to trust. Sorry, that's earned not passed out like profit sharing.

I started out with an open mind with this merger, all I've been hearing since is how "we" lcal guys tried to steal your seniority, back door deals with profit sharing, reclassification of jump seat to suit LUal pilots, we are not as professional as LUal guys and the like. Oh yes we are all scab loving drones! ***!
I have flown with LUal guys and even went to training with one and haven't noticed the difference between the two groups. Both have good and bad pilots alike. Overall a good experience for me.
It's just loud mouthed internet warriors such as your self and others here and on other forums that seem to seek divisiveness.
If this is how the majority of LUal guys feel then it's going to be a long career for us all. I'm hoping it's just a few disgruntled people like yourself. Before calling me unprofessional you should look in the mirror my union brother!

Do you wear your ALPA pin?

"ECON is SPECIFICALLY prohibited by international law."

Not really.

On certain Pacific routes we fly econ all the time and so does every one else. When I fly the SFO- FRA or LHR we fly ECON except on the class II nav sections and then we use a fixed mach, as prescribed by the route and the WOM.

Don't be such an alarmist. In fact many at UAL over the years have flown ECON as long as it matched the planned and cleared MACH. The problem is you must stay in that % range of the cleared mach on certain routes, Atlantic being a critical area, or else you are in violation of the regulations for that route.

It is a whole lot easier to request a clearance at say .85 and just set it there rather than having to watch the ECON Mach to make sure it doesn't violate the cleared speed requirements.

I'm basically lazy and hate writing reports, so on my flights we fix the mach where it's required. If I was a F/O I would insist upon it and write an IROP and an FSAP if a Captain refused. For sure take it to Professional Standards.

Yup........

sweet... so do I....

This is Bull****. I have been flying with ex LUAL types for about a year now. Some are good, some are bad, some have attitudes...Just like the LCAL pilots I have flower with in the past. To come on a PUBLiC forum and rip a pilot group like he did is unprofessional. If the stuff he claims took place there are proper channels to correct the problems. A PUBLIC forum is not the place.

I had thought Joe was a somewhat moderate, intelligent poster. I guess he is just another addition to my Ignore list.

There you go - let me say this to clear the air with you very telling statement. There are no ex-LUAL, there are ex-LCAL but the LUAL guys/gals were, are and will continue to be UAL. Where as the ex-CONS (as you like to be referred) will always be ex-CAL and will always share a place with the Lorenzo era. Sorry that's history and considering the actions of your side of late, your history will not change.
Always keep in mind that it didn't have to be this way - your side choose it.

Oh yes, there are LUAL. The acronym stands for LEGACY UAL. Legacy stand for pre merger and there is plenty of that mindset around including you. I assume it will remain that way until we are fully integrated and when 90% of us figure out we are all the same and all on the same team.

Now as far as the Lorenzo era, unless you forgot, you have your own darker history as well. I submit the only reason that you got through your strike better than Continental is that they went first and you learned from their mistakes. So rather than throwing aspersions, you should be thanking them for going through what you didn't have to. You won't however because you like to look down on people and your arrogance won't let you. That's fine, sad really, but something I have come to expect from those of you on web forums.

Sorry to "bust your bubble" Hope, you're mixing apples and oranges again!! :o Yes LCAL did disappear but, so did "L"UAL soon to be revised in the ops manual!!:eek: We are ALL UAL now. no "L" included!! So, hang on to your crusty attitude as long as you can because in the real near future the majority of the pilots are going to be neither "L" pilots and really won't care what you or I have to say!! I can't wait for that day!!;)

I'd buy the beer for CAL full time strikers. I'm more than happy to interact with those who want to have a good time without all the drama. The slick ties will never get the time of day from me. As for the scabs, that goes without saying.

Make no mistake, the guys who fought the fight at rCAL are not part of the body that makes up ex-CON's of today. They fought a battle and suffered more than many of you will ever understand. For you to attempt to take credit for what those guys did and somehow include yourself with them is wrong - you will never be part of that group.

What your legacy will include is the actions post strike and that's been covered on this and many other forums.