Lol! That'll show 'em we mean business!

Was it common belief that UAL would end up buying CAL and get rid of the Continental name because CAL was better ?! Riiiiggghhht.

Keep sending extra money to the lawsuit - it will make a difference .....is that common knowledge too?!

Syd, I think everybody knows where you come from. You want to keep harping about the contract that stopped the blood bath going on toward the bottom of the list. I'm beginning to think you really are a CAL guy. If you are who you say you are and senior enough to be a 777 Captain then you lost very little and anything you did lose was fair payment for past protections.

If you want numbers to get worked up over:
Of the 67% that passed it.
Capt = 55% F/O = 35%
LUAL = 47% LCAl = 53%
Not real - just for SYD.

Now chew on that in your little world. How come you haven't cried about the PS fiasco or asked of JH to resign?

Talk about flame baiting - your non-factual rant is not even worth wasting any time to respond.

This message is hidden because hopeSales is on your ignore list.

So much better when the resident loudmouth is silenced. I consider not wearing a pin just so loudmouths like this guy will ignore me.

It wasn't discounted. You got paid it, in violation of the TPA for that matter. Then you got to keep it when it could have been garnished from you for the sake of unity.

There is no sense responding to a delusional post with a delusional response. LUAL liquidating?? You should really go review the financials in 2010 pre merger.

No offense, but I've never seen anything like the operation we've been running over the past year. Everything is a total nightmare. I'm well aware of LUAL's issues, our past, struggles with passenger satisfaction etc. The trend, however, was moving upward from a VERY low bottom. Tilton wanted a merger and managed as such. The employees were along for the ride. The choice was CAL or USAirways. CAL seemed the better choice, though I think 100% of us would have preferred to work for a management that wanted to RUN an airline and grow independently. I GUARANTEE you the 1998 hires who are now below your 2006 hires would have preferred it. So you were the better of the two choices we were faced with. I wouldn't get so excited about that.

On the CAL side your systems, managers and leaders are now controlling the airline. I'm not sure if they don't work because they can't handle the addition of so many employees, or if the merger is exposing how poor they are, but clearly it's not working. And it's not just the pilots. The CAL team is choosing to divide and conquer the flight attendants STILL with no end in sight. The better path is on display at Delta every day but Jeff doesn't want to see it. In the meantime I still find pay errors every month, can't figure out this horrendous PBS, and can't tell how long my sit is between flights without doing the math rather than just looking at the number.

I'm exaggerating to make my point. LCAL was not the pinnacle of a auto you pretend it was. LUAL was by no means going away. I hope you realize that and were just responding to hopesales typical flame bait. If you notice, many of us LUAL's have called him out for his ridiculous posts. Don't sink to that level.

He is a loudmouth. But since you're a 737 FO I'm guessing you haven't been around too long, so I'm going to offer some advice. You don't want to do that... Because it goes much deeper than just ignoring you.

Just as the SFO base was not opened. The difference being the LCAL pilots did go around crying about how the LUAL pilots were afforded protections that were negotiated for by them. I wonder what the LCAL pilot group got since you guys negotiated these protections outside of the TPA with the company.

Just like I figured, just shooting the mouth off as usual. I can only hope you are not really a Ual pilot and just come on here to stir the pot. I was not "harping" just asked a simple question from your previous post, of course just some random silly response from you. Your comment about anything I lost was fair says plenty about you and how you look at things here as a group.

+1 Good Post!! (from a former LCAL, now "New United" pilot!)

Mitch. In April of 2010 UAL and US were about to sign a deal. Smisek jumped in and stopped it ( remember that the ugly girl / pretty girl bit?). Why? If your business plan was so solid, why did he jump in? If UAL was to liquidate as you say, why would he have cared about it?

If "Continental" was such corporate nirvana and United was such crap, why was YOUR GUY so quick to use the United brand for the combined airline? Are you really that stupid or are YOU flame baiting?

Big big trouble? Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true

To throw a bone to the ual management to make them think they were contributing something.....didn't we tell you smallsak was an idiot?

So now Smisek is a genius and smart business man?!!!??? "My guy" turned UAL down TWICE! Larry Kellner saw the decay and top heavy structure of UAL and ran away as fast as he could. You could thank Chase (and of course Jeffery!) for the merger.

Yes, let's use Smisek's "genius" when it fits our little facade. Smisek is an idiot as I'm sure you've preached when complaining how how "CAL" mgt is over their head. Reference my last post - the merger was driven by Chase and Smisek was the inflated ego stupid enough to take the deal. Kellner Turned UAL down TWICE and was determined to grow from within. What reality do you guys live in?!! The majority of your airplanes are old and decrepit! Ive DH around the system a lot since the merger and have seen many different LUAL fleets. UAL aircraft were a mess before the merger. We've had to spend millions to bring them up to speed. You've got 180 managers to every 1 (obvious exaggeration to make a point) that CAL had!

I agree that Jeff is an idiot but this was the biggest decision of all. It needed to be approved by the board, the largest shareholders, the banks, etc. Obviously, all the major players (excepting yourself) were in agreement that using the United brand was the most favorable course of action. How do you reconcile that FACT with your belief that the Continental brand and identity were so superior?

I think your right syd. He must be a 15 year old that gets his kicks trying to stir the pot. What hasn't he been banned yet?

Most CAL "my guy" choice is Gordon and he still to this day gives props to sCAL Jeff Smisek...

What is your theory on why sUAL old plane sUAL seemed to have no problem being #1 on time legacy for 2 years before we merged?

Really? What kind of retribution am I looking at? From the attitudes most have on here I think being an excon guy alone is gonna get me something. Will I bust my next sim? Gonna crap in my hat? I am really not gonna be threatened into wearing a pin.

Such a brave little guy.

Just up the lawsuit contributions...give early and often! And we're the rocket scientist? Riiiight.

Well, Mitch, the reality we live in is understanding that the industry changed dramatically and permanently with the Delta / NW merger. We can go back and forth all day on everything else. You seem to believe that CAL was going to do just fine growing and competing in New York and elsewhere against a vastly superior, well managed competitor. Yet, this is the kind of financial reporting that was coming from CAL while UAL and US were putting their own deal together:


2009 10K filed Feb 2010.

We have backstop financing available for the three other Boeing 737 aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2010, subject to customary closing conditions. However, we do not have backstop financing or any other financing currently in place for the balance of the Boeing aircraft on order. Further financing will be needed to satisfy our capital commitments for our firm order aircraft and other related capital expenditures. We can provide no assurance that the backstop financing or any other financing not already in place for our aircraft deliveries will be available to us when needed on acceptable terms or at all. Since the commitments for firm order aircraft are non-cancelable, and assuming no breach of the agreement by Boeing, if we are unable to obtain financing and cannot otherwise satisfy our commitment to purchase these aircraft, the manufacturer could exercise its rights and remedies under applicable law, such as seeking to terminate the contract for a material breach, selling the aircraft to one or more other parties and suing us for damages to recover any resulting losses incurred by the manufacturer.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/319687/000031968710000011/f123109form10k.htm#riskfactorsterroristattack




2010 10Q 1stQuarter earnings call

Operator

Our last question from the analyst comes from Bill Mastoris with Broadpoint, please go ahead.

Bill Mastoris - Broadpoint
Thank you. Gerry, I wonder if you could give us a status report on the aircraft deliveries into the EETCs. And maybe if you could just comment on how many remaining aircraft are yet to be placed into those transactions. And I'm specifically referring to really the second half of last year 2009-1 and 2009-2.

Gerry Laderman
Bill, you are breaking up a little bit, this is Jerry. But I think you are asking about the 2009-2 EETC and the aircraft to go into that. There are some vintage aircraft that roll off an existing EETC in May that we expect to go into that EETC as the prospective outlines. And then with respect to new aircraft, the two 777s and nine 737s that were earmarked to that transaction, we expected this time to take delivery of those aircraft by the end of August, in which case they would go into that EETC.

Bill Mastoris - Broadpoint
Okay, and Gerry, if you could comment briefly on the aircraft deliveries, for 2011. Maybe the financing for those, is that all non-back stop financing from other third parties which have been lined up or is that back stop financing?

Gerry Laderman
We have no back stop financing for those aircrafts.

Bill Mastoris - Broadpoint
For any deliveries, in 2011?

Gerry Laderman
For any remaining deliveries at all.


Continental Airlines Q1 2010 Earnings Call Transcript - Seeking Alpha


When the banks see a high risk business plan, they look for a better plan with substantially less risk. Why wouldn't they, especially in this industry? The merger was that plan. No wonder Smisek and the Board had to act swiftly when they realized that a UAL / US deal was near. Would you have preferred being left for a merger with AA instead? How would that have gone for you? Carving up New York, the problem with two large, nearby hubs in Texas, and dealing with APA. You think you have a bad deal now....

I'm sure you and many of the 05-08 hires will spend all your days here continuing to believe that ALPA, L-UAL pilots, the banks and every other conspirator "took" your career away. Never admitting or understanding that in reality, you can't lose what you weren't going to have to begin with.

If by some unfortunate chance you do bust your next sim, you just might crap your hat. While you aren't wearing your alpa pin, your next move could be calling the alpa training committee.

Please don't wear the pin. Enjoy the respect it commands amongst your peers.

No Syd, I look at what the UAL group lost post 9/11 and it amazes me how you as an individual can't see past what you lost compared to the loses of other pilots in the group. if you are a 777 Captain, you're like all 777/400 Captains who lost some but no where near what the bottom 2-3,000 pilots and many in the middle of the list lost. Was it the pilots fault for not being able to foresee the events and plan accordingly, NO! Was it the poor ALPA leadership? probable when you look at the cast of characters with their hands in the pot(Whiteford, Bathhurst, Wallach, Morris, Heppner). Did management play a role. Most definitely, the airline industry had been shut down for a few weeks when Jim Goodwin got on national TV and stated that if United keep losing money at this rate - we'd be in bankruptcy next year. Didn't take the money people long to realize what could happen if the events carried on any longer and we got "good ol Glenn" to maximum their return while selling off assets and destroying lives. I know that's a lot of BS to you but can you really be that selfish to expect a premium contract given what the MEC was working with. Jeff and the CAL MEC working together against our UAL MEC to ensure the CAL way of live would continue at the expense of the UAL pilots. What was that way of life? Jeff wanting to keep cal work rules, cal MEC trying to stealing Captain seat, seniority, PS, delaying JCBA and the list goes on.

All of that was to say this - in the 4 years leading up to 9/11, I made between 200,000 to 225,000 a year. Afterwards I saw a constant erosion of pay through surpluses, bump, equipment base closures, parked airplanes. Do I feel entitled - NO! - and neither should you. The bottom of the list was hit the hardest, with the middle of the list not far behind. To get any contract that stop the blood bath going on at those senority levels was well worth it. Even though SYD wasn't made whole, you and I have time to make it up and if we don't have time to do that then we can feel good that we did the right thing. Carry On!

Let's try this again. When I recently asked you a question it was directed at a quote you made in regards to who voted on the contract. I didn't **** and moan about the contract. I asked where you got those numbers and of course you didn't have them so you started your rant.

Now you go on about what YOU made and lost and what YOU should or should not have thats great. We all know who and what you are concerned with. Next time we all know where you will be in the corner with your tail between your legs. I think someone else asked if you have ever had to walk a line, oh yes you never answered that question either.

You sound a lot like some of the CAL guys on this forum. Trying to deflect heat by putting it on somebody else. All the questions ask of me, have been answered. READ! As far as me mentioning my pay - I just wanted you to see how stupid it is for you to keep harping at the guys for voting in the current UPA. If you are a LUAL 777 CAPT, you made about the same as I did. What exactly are you trying to hide with the constant bashing of the UPA and the people that voted it in and the constant crying about the money you lost. sad!
As far as the vote count of any contract we've been allowed to vote on - the vote count has not been released - as a west Coast 777 CAPT you should know that. Which kinda make me wonder to what extent if any you are involved in ALPA except to complain.

Wow, just not worth the effort anymore until you actually read a post. Best of luck the rest of the way in high school. When you apply please find another airline.

Thanks - you're Dismissed!

P.S. Before I go - will I find your name in the Yellow Book?

Now thats funny. By the way run it by us again, when were you hired, what equipment are you on and what equipment were you on in 2000-2001?

I don't think that's a threat - is it?

It was an invitation to discuss you questions about me.

In that case, I know everything I need or want to know about you. I repost for your reading - Billy BA

Grievance has been granted. I hope they pay each LUAL pilot another profit sharing check for that year equal to the original one and we can move forward from this incredibly short-sighted agreement outside the TPA.

I'd give up any monetary award if they'd shelve loa 25.

The company wrote an 11 page dissent. I'm not hopeful.

I thought this profit sharing grievance was dead. Can someone splain this or is this just an old post and people are overreacting to a dead issue.

The last grievance was that the company violated the Transistion and Process Agreement in regards to making a side deal with LCAL. They did, and we won the grievance but the remedy was to take the PS away from the LCAL pilots. :confused: Not going to happen.

This grievance:

1) Whether the grievance is timely under Section 17-A of the United Pilots Agreement?

2) Whether UCH violated Letter 05-02, Exhibit C, and Section 3-L-2 of the Agreement by adopting a profit sharing plan for 2011 under which both sub-UA and sub-CO employees (instead of only sub-UA employees) participated?

3. Whether the Company violated Section 3-L-1-k of the labor agreement by failing to supply information requested by ALPA?

Management lost the grievance, but we'll see if it amounts to anything this time.

Yellow liquid.