757 Fleet Question
 

With 30+ 757's going away sometime after the summer schedule, does anybody have an idea of which 757 bases are going to lose the majority of the the 757 flying? Seems crazy that they are running so many people through 757 training just to shrink the fleet. Thanks.

Best guess? DEN. SFO should only shrink slightly from what it already is. ORD maybe?

My guess:

SEA DEN ORD LAX displacement bid posted in OCT with JAN effective date.

Yep. And almost every one of them can probably hold guppy Captain in their base.

And 756 Capt just about everywhere too.

Release the hounds!

Since UAL doesn't like being "fat" on Captains, I see a LOT of 2005/2006 hire Captains being bumped back to the right seat.

Be nice to your F/O's….you may be swapping seats!

Eh doubt that will happen. I know you wish bad things on CAL guys but they will likely slowly reduce bases and add vacancies to minimize displacements and training events, with the large number of retirements coming most movement will be upward. Don't be hating on another guy just because he got hired in a better place at a better time, move forward.

Not wishing bad on anyone. The facts are that EVERY 76T FO in Den can bump into Den 737 Cap if they choose. Of course so can all of the 76T Den Captains. Thats about 170 pilots. My guess is 75% will bump into 737 Cap in Den. Then the CO will have to choose to grow the Den 737 Base to over 225 pilots in each seat or issue a secondary bump. If they choose to keep the Den 737 at current levels, this will flush out the junior Captains and many of the junior guys that just bumped into that category. Interesting times ahead.

Xactly. It's not about wishing bad on people. It's numbers. There are 170 Denver 76T (UAL757) pilots. ALL can hold Denver 737 CAP. IF, and I emphasize IF, the company is really parking all those 757s, where oh where do those 170 pilots go? The company has already thinned the heard by delaying the displacements and providing system wide vacancies. That ship has sailed. Time to bump. Hopefully the Denver 737 base will grow THAT much, time will tell.

Sled

Ahhh but you guys are all forgetting something here. The company is wanting to shrink the A-320 fleet in DEN too. The top 60% of those F/O's and ALL of the captains are also healthy 737 Cap holders in Denver and of course everywhere else. This truly is a seniority tsunami in the making it will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

So we are talking a lot more than 225 positions in the end. Looks like we either need to start putting some airframes on the property AND the 737 training program needs a major overhaul/streamlining or things are going to back up in epic proportions. Does anybody here remember when the 727 fleet shut down? Some guys were sitting at home on full pay for like 18 months before they got retrained. Where is THAT briar patch, I'm ready to jump in!:)

Hellz yeah! I'm ready!!

No hate intended. Just simple math. At LUAL, we've been through this before.

Lots of LCAL guys got Captain out of seniority due to the fact that LUAL guys were not allow to bid for seats in our bases during the delayed SLI. Over time, this problem will correct itself.

I know several junior LCAL Captains. They are all really sharp guys who are a pleasure to be around. They never should have been awarded Captain seats in ORD, DEN, and LAX but I will admit that I would have done the same thing in their position!

But....they shouldn't get too ticked when LUAL guys come in and bump them backwards (or even off) the equipment.

As far as them being hired at a better place....that just makes me smile. I've been around way too long to accept that LCAL was ever a top tier airline. It was never even in the top 5. It was a nice little regional airline that would let you fly medium size jets if FedEx, UPS, UAL, DAL, AMR or SWA didn't want you. (Oh I'm just pushing some buttons in good fun. Only joking here...) :)

Agree. I keep hearing how the more senior pilots coming into bases somehow proves the SLI was imbalanced. This is just the natural result of pilots who were fenced out of those positions artificially now bidding in. Its no different than if the company said only pilots whose last name starts with A-J can bid for 3 years, and then after that removes that limitation.

Wherever someone sat in 2010 was more realistic of what they should hold today. If they are in a base that they couldn't hold in 2010, then they should count themselves lucky and stop complaining about guys moving in on top of them.

Displacements are going to potentially happen now that everyone can bid all the positions. Also, it was the "new" company management that decided to park the LUAL 757s and displace those pilots.

Its all our flying now. All our bases. All our equipment. At least completely all ours by Dec 2015.

What's really funny is to hear the guys preaching unity and brotherhood now who just a year ago were talking smack about crappy old UAL and encouraging a certain Jay in his attempt to bamboozle the ISL decision. YCMTSU.

The bottom line may end up that without a wholesale change in the WAY (not necessarily just nor limited to the GUY) this place is run the blood will flow and it may not be pretty. If you presuppose that they will use the same haphazard approach to "fixing" the problems that they took to merging the two airlines (and creating the problems) than we are in deep scheise. The Keystone Kops got us here.

Anyone junior in any seat is fair game for good case of Willis Tower sponsored ebola.

This thread is downright funny!! You guys have been talking about this bump for almost a yr. now!! Prior posts say "let the bumps begin", "watch out below" and stuff like that you don't think would be offensive? And then you have the audacity to get on here and say I didn't mean it like that? I think we may need to send you to a "new" sensitivity ground school!! :) I to believe that the positions held in 2010 should be starting point on ones expectation. I've said I understand why people like "Hoss" are ticked off!(I agree!) But, I don't understand why either group (excluding pilot64golfer) gets on here and say if I suffer you better suffer also!! I'm not totally against opening up the whole system to a system flush, it would give me a chance to get back to Denver as a Capt on 76! JK I would be a really junior Capt on that plane and have no interest going to training!! :) I'm just throwing stuff out there to show nobody knows how people are going to bid. i.e.-would a senior 76/75 FO want to go to the regional 73 and be mid/junior line holder? I could be wrong but, I don't think all those guys are willing to jump on the 73 just to be a Capt! Anyway, what day in October was the displacement Bid?

The only problem I have with your argument is that BOTH sides were calling each other names!! And, I know people will argue this but we were Negotiating the list, so there will be differences. The big difference now is that your point was PRE ISL, today it's POST ISL. :rolleyes:

I hate to admit it, but I actually kinda agree. The company has already shown a willingness to keep more than half a base on reserve so I see a distinct possibility that they open a trickle of 737 bids in DEN and ORD and LAX bringing the 76T numbers down gradually over the next two years. Just because the 757s are going away doesn't mean the flying is going away. It's shifting fleets. So I'm not sure bumps are ever coming, at least not in the wholesale batch of which many on this thread are dreaming.

Agree.

The costs to the company would be astronomical.

They will do everything they can to prevent it.

It's far cheaper to keep issuing vacancies and let guys bid off, retire, or rot on reserve.

Except for Seattle and LAX 74, I don't see "huge" displacements happening any time soon.

With retiring 30+ Captains a month, guys will take the upgrade or BES seniority bump by bidding out of dieing bases and fleets.

IMHO

What do you think they have been doing for the past year? Thinning the heard with voluntary vacancies and retirements. Now it's time to get serious. With 34 757s leaving between now and January, you are going to see displacements. C33 LSC hinted at September in the last council meeting, and Howard Attarian said this in his last Letter.....

Displacements off the 757 are coming. I will be back here to tell you "I told you so" before you know it.

Sled

I bet you are a FANTASTIC Guard Nazi too.

YOU'RE ON GUUUAAARRRRDDDDDDDD!!!!!! <frothing spittle Sled>

Yep the bumps are coming. Everyone I know on the 757 fleet is waiting to bump. Why bid off and take a freeze when you can be patient, bump into your base as a guppy Captain, and then not have a freeze. Maybe their plan is to bid sparky FO once the fence drops.

(Nearly) all of those Capt's are really senior and really Scabby. I can't see too many Blue FO's wanting to bid over to that until well after the fence comes down and the neighborhood improves a bit.

Once the fence drops, maybe some blue Captains will bid in and dilute the number of black scabs on Sparky.

I no kidding had a sparky scab captain tell me to go F myself in the crew van in SFO yesterday...TINS..

Goes like this. Deadhead into SFO in plain clothes, go to ACS van. Ask driver if he is for me, another piloten in plain clothes comes out of the van and asks if I'm going to KIX. I say no.

Anyway, while the driver is checking on who he is supposed to take, another captain shows up from a deadhead in full uniform with hat...I think I see an Alpa pin on him and don't pay him anymore attention.

We all three get in the van, so I ask the guy who was going to KIX what airplane he was flying, 400 or 777. He says the 787. ( I didn't know sparky was flying that route)

So, I had to ask if he mostly fly's with scabs.. His reply, "I wouldn't know." Hmm. As I'm figuring out my follow up, the captain that was in the van turns around ad says "I'm going to Osaka tomorrow and I'm a SCAB and you can go F yourself"

I replied "Wow, that's something to be proud of being a SCAB."

He says "You have a big mouth." I say "No, I have honor and integrity."

Silence until getting to the hostel 30 minutes later, except for the f/o talking about dinner plans with the scab.

We are getting out of the van and the sparky f/o looks at me and shakes his head. I say "yes, disappointing that you accept scab behavior....

The scab had a half hour to think of a comeback and mumbled something but, I left them with this "Don't worry, the United pilots will be coming to that airplane soon enough."

Take-aways

1) I am truly honored that a POS Scab told me to go F myself when I wasn't even talking to him.
2) I despised the scab sympathizer f/o just as much if not more than the pos SCAB cap!

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Now back to your regular programming :D

Yeah, it sounds like he's worried! You showed him!! I know you're ready to clean our house, but, you may want to start with YOURS first!! :eek: You've had almost 30 yrs and they are still there!

Slats,

For that story, I'd buy your beer.

The lack of respect displayed is not only for those who scabbed, but for those who think about scabbing in the future. Kind of like paying it forward.

A lot of those FOs that kiss the SCABS rear end try to play it both ways. When not in company of SCABS their go to comment is "It was before my time."

Pathetic to give ANY SCAB shelter.

How many LUAL scabs are there in the DEN training center, on the line as Check Airman, or behind a desk in any flight office?

The house was cleaned years ago. The few remaining LUAL scabs slink around quietly and have zero influence within the union or management.

From my brief exposure to the ex-CAL operation on the 737 I can't make the same observation. Just saying.

Clueless post.

It is about giving ANY SCAB or SCAB sympathizer their due.

It's not about whose SCABS are where. These just happened to be a LCAL crew.

Not trying to defend this group, just trying to understand what is going to be done? In you "brief exposure" to the CAL ops, what type things have YOU done to help remedy this situation? (Please don't tell me that you have called them mean names!! :rolleyes:) And through your actions what have the results been?

And since it was an LCAL crew I just thought I'd bring it up in the 757 thread!! ;)

Hardly. Because of the return to work agreement, neither the company nor ALPA was permitted to take punitive action against those on the "other" side once the strike was over.

It didn't take long, however, for quite a few of the street scabs to quit and not too many years later there were none to be found the in positions mentioned above.

Line pilots, just like ALPA itself, do not hire or fire pilots but by working together the scabs were effectively neutered from influencing anything.

Really,

In your opinion, what should be done to remedy the issue with the scabs? I'm all ears.

Hmmmm,

Did we strike a nerve here?

Yea! I'm not a big fan of Hypocrites!! ;)

ST, I'm not sure how to answer that question. It's two fold, what outcome should there be and what can be accomplished. You and I would agree what the outcome should be!! And that we wouldn't have anyone that crossed the line part of the group. But, in reality thats not going to happen! We've tried for 30yrs and both sides have them. I've said this in prior posts, I guess you can call me soft. While I won't make them feel at home and I'll let them know my beliefs and their Moral deficiencies, I have trouble making a daily battle with them and everyone they fly with.(and calling the non-scab FO out! It takes a lot of anger!) They will be retiring soon I just try to ignore them and enjoy the people I fly with and relate to. Much like the FO I just flew with!! A LUAL pilot no less!! :) Great guy! Very similar beliefs as me, so it made it nice!

I'm not sure you understand.

They're check airman, they're management, they're in the CPO, they fly all the senior aircraft on the senior trips, get weekends off and every holiday.

They don't care about you.

They don't care about me.

If you want to fly crappy low paying trips over the weekends, fine.

If you want weekends off, holidays off, high productivity to yield more days off - you'll be flying with a scap or a mafia member who grabbed the trip before anyone else could.

That's just life.

Whatever their past sins were, they'll pay for them in the afterlife.

For now, Satan is living up to his end of the deal and providing them with the life they wanted.

Do I like it - no.

But to bid around these guys costs me money and time away from my family.

You can be the pariah and sacrifice yourself on the fire of virgins.

I'll take the weekends off with my family and make the trips as pleasant as I can.

Really,

I get what you're saying I just don't know why you need to go on page after page bloviating about how you don't want any trouble with scabs.